college of engineering

[suprarx7nut]

God I can't wait to get a job at an engineering firm.

Joe, I've gotta say I envy you for your job and your oh so pretty black beauty. (referring to you car and NOTHING else) haha.

 

[OneJoeZee]

God I can't wait to get a job at an engineering firm.

Joe, I've gotta say I envy you for your job and your oh so pretty black beauty. (referring to you car and NOTHING else) haha.

Honestly, it's a double-edged sword right now. I'm not technically an intern but I'm not a degree'd employee.

Since I started, I'm used to living based on working there X amount of hours a week. I couldn't afford to be a full-time student if I wanted to. Couldn't pay bills and couldn't afford my car. If I wanted to go back to school fulltime, I'd probably have to sell my Supra. I only take about 12 units a semester. I've got 2-3 years of school still left ahead of me. My other friends my age will be graduating in spring but I'll still be in school. I may go back full time in my last year or two. I don't know. I'm not in a rush to get out of school though... I have the rest of my life to work, ya know?

Of course when I'm out, I'll have a huge experience advantage if I chose to apply somewhere else.

The best thing about working in your field while going to school is you figure out much clearer if you're really doing something you wanna do and have the opportunity to switch while you still can. If I hated my work, I would have switched majors over a year ago. Reading a book and listening to a teacher isn't even close to being hands on and part of a real engineering project. I don't just push papers in the mail room. I have real meaningful tasks. I'll be going to meetings every 2 weeks with the project manager and the rest of the team working on the project we just started. Pretty exciting stuff for a student.


/rambling(sorry)

 

[suprarx7nut]

If I wanted to go back to school fulltime, I'd probably have to sell my Supra.

Ya, school is what's keeping me at the high-mileage N/A budget tier.

Field experience is something I really want in this next school year. I really want to be an engineer so far because I'm good with numbers, math is common sense to me and I love creating/completing meaningful projects, but I really want some experience.

Back on topic....

To the original poster: You may want to look into any field experience programs your school offers. Mine offers a TON, but I was too focused on my grades to take advantage. My GPA is great, but I have a feeling my lack of experience may hold me back when I graduate if I don't get a connection somewhere.

Tackle the math first though, that'll be running your life in a year or so.

 

[drunk_medic]

Reading this helps me tremendously.
I was thinking about going to school, and one possibility was engineering. After reading this, I think not. I dislike math terribly; It bores me and I hold no interest in it.
Looks like something with computers/IT or electronics is probably the way for me.

 

[Clip]

so do you keep building on the new math skills all through, or do you stop learning new concepts (eventually) and just start applying them to real-life problems?

 

[arz]

That's fucking stupid. Unless he did a few co-ops and actually saw what it was like, he made a dumb choice.

I've been working at an engineering firm for 2 years. School and class is no kind of comparison to real work.

This man speaks the truth.

I worked for GM for almost 4 years, Lansing Automotive Division, (LAD) Engine packaging (Quad 4 and others), Flint Powertrain, V6 engine design (Supercharged 3.8 liter Series II), (everything but the 4.3 liter, "Truck" owned that cause it didnt go in any cars) and Cadillac Luxury Car Division, (CLCD) Engine (Northstar) and suspension design.

I loved those jobs....but I hated Michigan. I can stand rusty cars and the crappy weather. Moved back to AZ, worked for TRW doing Airbag design and other vehicle restraint stuff.

Then went to McDonnell Douglas and the AH-64 Apache Longbow. I designed the Longbow wings, trailing edges and the ATAS (Air to air stinger) wing tip mounts for new build and re-man wings. There are a ton of little doodads I designed on the airframe structure. Then I moved on to the Trainers (Full up Apaches that would never fly) but had tons of software and mods to generate faults to them to make the pilot and CPG troubleshoot on the fly, they can literally turn off black boxes one by one until they find the problem and keep the aircraft flying on redundant systems. Boeing bought McDonnell Douglas, and kept "on" with the money making Apache. I was there for more than 10 years, and loved every minute of it.

Im someplace else now making the chain guns that go in the Apache and other fighting vehicles. Boeing sold that division and it couldn't be better. Its a great job nuts and bolts engineering, gears and pulleys, cams, sprockets, torque, thrust and recoil, I couldn't ask for more. I love my job, you ought to experience 600 rounds a minute in real life, its amazing, the firing range is the greatest.

Back to the Intern stuff, I helped an intern friend get a job 2 years after he graduated. Only reason he got the job is because I told him to put a software BACK on his resume. He had taken it off because an adviser (not a person thats been in the real world) told him since his experience with the software was more than 2 years old he should remove it from his resume because the software was probably outdated. This from someone that has never had a REAL job.

Lesson 1. Dont make a habit out of taking advise from those that teach and don't DO!!! Career professors SUCK at giving real world advise, because they live in academia not the real world.

Lesson 2. If you love it (engineering) get school over with as soon as possible and get on with your life.

Lesson 3. If good weather matters to you, move as soon as possible, its only going to get more expensive and you will never regret the move. You will always make new friends, and if your old friends aren't happy for you then they weren't your friends to start with.

If you are happy with where you live, you will thrive.

 

[Clip]

arz, how much pencil and paper math did you have to do on the wing design? I've heard talk from some engineers that the college math is a waste of time because they used computer programs to do the math in the real world. this true?

 

[Shytheed Dumas]

Clip, I hope you hear me on this one. If you don't like math then go find something else to do! I didn't really choose a career that fits my personality, I'm degreed (bs & ms), 11 1/2 years with the same company, and so specialized that it's been really hard getting other work.

I started in engineering, but like everybody else here said, I found out quickly that you will be an applied mathematician and it wasn't something I liked. I figured I'd better stay in a technical field for 'earning potential' and 'job security', only to find out that companies put the largest salaries in the hands of the people closest to the money like sales, marketing, etc. if you perform.

Within my immediate family I am the smallest earner and the only one with an advanced degree! My sister graduated with a general business degree and maybe a 2.5 gpa and makes double my salary (which ain't bad, btw) or more because she wound up in a career path that fits her to a tee. Another is completing her CPA now - and her husband (another half-assed gpa BA in business) already out earns me, and my youngest sister is doing pretty freaking well with a civil engineering degree.

So my point isn't to whine about my career. I just wanted to point out that you only have one chance at choosing a career field to finish a degree in, and you're expected to guess the right one at an early age. I'm pretty sure I got it wrong, but if I had it to do over again I would certainly consider the pay potential, but a lot more would go into it because it sucks to get stuck in something that doesn't excite or challenge you with no real chance of moving on because the responsibilty of a family becomes more important than you happiness at work.

 

[DeSloth]

So you are planning to rely 100% on software packages, with little to no understanding of what is driving them?

I thought some of the maths learned in 1st and 2nd year Engineering was silly - until much more advanced dynamics and design courses demanded I use it! :aigo:

If it wasn't important, why would you spend an entire year learning it? (We do here in Aus. anyway)

arz, how much pencil and paper math did you have to do on the wing design? I've heard talk from some engineers that the college math is a waste of time because they used computer programs to do the math in the real world. this true?

 

[Clip]

thanks for the tips sloth snd shytheed, i really appreciate em

 

[arz]

Clip, I hope you hear me on this one. If you don't like math then go find something else to do! I didn't really choose a career that fits my personality, I'm degreed (bs & ms), 11 1/2 years with the same company, and so specialized that it's been really hard getting other work.

I started in engineering, but like everybody else here said, I found out quickly that you will be an applied mathematician and it wasn't something I liked. I figured I'd better stay in a technical field for 'earning potential' and 'job security', only to find out that companies put the largest salaries in the hands of the people closest to the money like sales, marketing, etc. if you perform.

If your the only Engineer in a small company, yea they are going to lean on you heavily to provide all sorts of calcs and applied mathematics. Thats fine if your boss appreciates you. If your a high earner in a small company they have nothing to compare what your worth, you have no peers, and management might bitch about how much you make. I have worked at small companies where the sole engineer (before I got there) made more than everybody except the president and the owner. I saw that someone was going to have to die before I was going to get to that position, so I learned a ton and moved on, to this day they ask me if I would like to come back. Now if you go to a big company and the average mechanical people make between 90K and 150K they will eventually figure out who needs to be making what and pay people accordingly or they will leave.

Its nice to be a big fish in a small pond if the boss appreciates you, if they don't your life will be miserable.

Within my immediate family I am the smallest earner and the only one with an advanced degree! My sister graduated with a general business degree and maybe a 2.5 gpa and makes double my salary (which ain't bad, btw) or more because she wound up in a career path that fits her to a tee. Another is completing her CPA now - and her husband (another half-assed gpa BA in business) already out earns me, and my youngest sister is doing pretty freaking well with a civil engineering degree.

So my point isn't to whine about my career. I just wanted to point out that you only have one chance at choosing a career field to finish a degree in, and you're expected to guess the right one at an early age. I'm pretty sure I got it wrong, but if I had it to do over again I would certainly consider the pay potential, but a lot more would go into it because it sucks to get stuck in something that doesn't excite or challenge you with no real chance of moving on because the responsibilty of a family becomes more important than you happiness at work.

Man I dont know what you do, but I dont know one civil engineer, CPA, even some lawyers dont make what I make. Hell I have some doctor friends that dont make what I make. You suffer from what a lot of engineers I have met suffer from, (honestly!!! no offense intended) "Fear of change!!!". Nothing will handicap you faster than letting you current employer beat you down and make you believe your degree isnt worth anything anywhere else just because you do something very specialized. Lack of experience should be the reason you leave, not the reason you stay. Get out be friendly and network, and change employers, yea its scary but you will never get any different experiences staying at the same place. You need to jump ship and in no time you will have doubled your income. Learn new things, meet new people, work hard, people will notice, and you will never have a problem getting a new job.

arz, how much pencil and paper math did you have to do on the wing design? I've heard talk from some engineers that the college math is a waste of time because they used computer programs to do the math in the real world. this true?

Math is not a waste of time and I really dont love it, but in big companies like I work at there are plenty of people that do love it, I find them and ask for help. Its my responsibility to make sure it doesn't fail, but its not my responsibility to do the stress calcs, so I take it to the Stress dept and then when the design crosses their desk, they sign off on with no problem, they are very familiar with it because I involved them in the process, I like it, they like it, it works great and everybody is happy.

how much pencil and paper math did you have to do on the wing design?

Almost none, the aircraft loft is almost 100% defined I just designed the structure that holds it there. Now at GM and TRW the IP design (its not a Dash board its an Instrument Panel) I did at LAD and TRW we determined loft they called it "Class A surface" but its all the same thing, "NOT analytic." Once people see your not afraid of new stuff, and that your a hard worker and that your a hands on kind of person, you get a reputation and you will get the good work.

Everyone, please dont think I am pointing fingers, IM NOT, Im just offering advise based on my experiences.

 

[IwantMKIII]

4th year MAE @WVU here

As much as it pains me to give advice to someone from Tech , all i can really say is don't take morning classes, if you're anything like me you like to go out and a lot. I've had 2 8am engineering classes and failed them both from lack of ability to pay attention and skipping class cause i'm too tired. A lot of people tell you that you won't have a life. IMO they're dead wrong, while its a lot of work, if you know how to balance things..youll get by just fine and have lots of fun doing it. As far as math is concerned, do yourself a favor and do your homework and teach yourself, most math teachers (at least here) you can't understand a damn word they're saying, so get help if you need it. 1st year won't be bad at all, very basic classes, but once you hit the classes like dynamics, thermo, fluids, mech. of materials, while interesting they're are tuff. My hardest one so far has been dynamics...we have a ridiculously hard teacher here...but he's good. Its the hard teachers you'll learn the most from.

 

[americanjebus]

I started ME this semester, so far the math hasnt gotten to intense and the autocad classes are like 2nd nature so far. The general consensus seams to be "make it past dynamics and your set!"

 

[MK3Brent]

3rd year at ECU here for Industrial Eng, and Mechanical.
Not skipping is the word.

Make a schedule and stick to it.
(Meaning select classes that go easily together)

This semester, I put my SPAC class with Electricity class... then when I'm out, I go to the top level of the library and study for an hour or two.
Go work out for a little...

Eat, go home.

Next day is easy day... you take the bologna classes.

 

[tte]

If your the only Engineer in a small company, yea they are going to lean on you heavily to provide all sorts of calcs and applied mathematics. Thats fine if your boss appreciates you. If your a high earner in a small company they have nothing to compare what your worth, you have no peers, and management might bitch about how much you make. I have worked at small companies where the sole engineer (before I got there) made more than everybody except the president and the owner. I saw that someone was going to have to die before I was going to get to that position, so I learned a ton and moved on, to this day they ask me if I would like to come back. Now if you go to a big company and the average mechanical people make between 90K and 150K they will eventually figure out who needs to be making what and pay people accordingly or they will leave.

Its nice to be a big fish in a small pond if the boss appreciates you, if they don't your life will be miserable.


Man I dont know what you do, but I dont know one civil engineer, CPA, even some lawyers dont make what I make. Hell I have some doctor friends that dont make what I make. You suffer from what a lot of engineers I have met suffer from, (honestly!!! no offense intended) "Fear of change!!!". Nothing will handicap you faster than letting you current employer beat you down and make you believe your degree isnt worth anything anywhere else just because you do something very specialized. Lack of experience should be the reason you leave, not the reason you stay. Get out be friendly and network, and change employers, yea its scary but you will never get any different experiences staying at the same place. You need to jump ship and in no time you will have doubled your income. Learn new things, meet new people, work hard, people will notice, and you will never have a problem getting a new job.

Math is not a waste of time and I really dont love it, but in big companies like I work at there are plenty of people that do love it, I find them and ask for help. Its my responsibility to make sure it doesn't fail, but its not my responsibility to do the stress calcs, so I take it to the Stress dept and then when the design crosses their desk, they sign off on with no problem, they are very familiar with it because I involved them in the process, I like it, they like it, it works great and everybody is happy.



Almost none, the aircraft loft is almost 100% defined I just designed the structure that holds it there. Now at GM and TRW the IP design (its not a Dash board its an Instrument Panel) I did at LAD and TRW we determined loft they called it "Class A surface" but its all the same thing, "NOT analytic." Once people see your not afraid of new stuff, and that your a hard worker and that your a hands on kind of person, you get a reputation and you will get the good work.

Everyone, please dont think I am pointing fingers, IM NOT, Im just offering advise based on my experiences.

Very good advice.

Cheers,
Roy

 

[Junior]

I spent 2 years out after highschool working minimum wage to pay for school. I gotta say that I think I've done better than I would have otherwise, 'cause I'm TERRIFIED of failing.

you WILL need math, and Excel will become your best friend.

If there's one thing that I've noticed, it's that result oriented people are the ones that make it. People that only care about the final result at the end of the day.

 

[Shytheed Dumas]

If your the only Engineer in a small company, yea they are going to lean on you heavily to provide all sorts of calcs and applied mathematics. Thats fine if your boss appreciates you. If your a high earner in a small company they have nothing to compare what your worth, you have no peers, and management might bitch about how much you make. I have worked at small companies where the sole engineer (before I got there) made more than everybody except the president and the owner. I saw that someone was going to have to die before I was going to get to that position, so I learned a ton and moved on, to this day they ask me if I would like to come back. Now if you go to a big company and the average mechanical people make between 90K and 150K they will eventually figure out who needs to be making what and pay people accordingly or they will leave.

Its nice to be a big fish in a small pond if the boss appreciates you, if they don't your life will be miserable.


Man I dont know what you do, but I dont know one civil engineer, CPA, even some lawyers dont make what I make. Hell I have some doctor friends that dont make what I make. You suffer from what a lot of engineers I have met suffer from, (honestly!!! no offense intended) "Fear of change!!!". Nothing will handicap you faster than letting you current employer beat you down and make you believe your degree isnt worth anything anywhere else just because you do something very specialized. Lack of experience should be the reason you leave, not the reason you stay. Get out be friendly and network, and change employers, yea its scary but you will never get any different experiences staying at the same place. You need to jump ship and in no time you will have doubled your income. Learn new things, meet new people, work hard, people will notice, and you will never have a problem getting a new job.

I'm a technical service rep for a chemical company. I work directly with customers to determine their specific needs and formulate dedicated adhesives for each site, work within my company for process optimization/streamlining, Six Sigma Greenbelt certified, etc. and pull down a little over seventy, including bonus. When I started I moved along quickly, but we were a MUCH smaller company then and my chain of command disappeared along with recognition and any sense of career development. I have BS and MS degrees in Wood Science and my company size is about $6 billion per year with the potential to grow signficantly. I am definitely a small fish in a big pond.

Since then it's been a struggle to keep going. My last promotion landed me double the responsibilty with at least double the travel and a 0% (yes, ZERO percent) promotional raise, because he said, and I quote "I believe you are too highly compensated". That asshat has since relocated to Europe and it wouldn't break my heart if I heard that he ended up with mad cow disease. Not that I'm bitter, but that really pissed me off, and I think it's justified.

Okay, so I've got documented successes, including a $50k bonus for the company last year, "Exceeds Expectations" on my annual reviews (top 20%) for 5 of the past 6 years, etc. and a ton of experience. I thought my direct customer work would get me into sales. I made the final round of several interviews, but when it came down to the last 2 or 3 candidates the word was the same - "You're great, your references are solid, we think you would do an excellent job. It's just that candidate B has been doing 100% sales work for the past 8 years, and you're only able to show us that your job is roughly 25%, so you can understand why we're going with the other guy."

So I said alright, we will look outside of sales, and it's been the same story. Recently I had a great in with a guy in the injection molding business serving the auto industry. Essentially the same role I'm in now, but different process and customers. I worked my way through their HR department in a couple of phone interviews, and then got shot down by the pres. The reason was no direct experience with the auto industry, and he didn't want to waste his time meeting me. The HR rep was terribly embarrassed by this, and said both he and my original contact (who I had met on a plane returning from a business trip) had gone to bat for me without any luck.

I am definitely not afraid of change, but I have to admit to being burnt out on hearing the same thing over and over when I know that I could kick ass in any of these jobs. Start my own business? Probably not. If I can say one thing about my wife, it is that she is not a risk taker and really something of a safety junkie - especially in terms of income. I know I handicap myself by staying in Louisville, but I know I'm capable of more than this.

So now I'm just keeping my eyes and ears open, and I'm wide open to new ideas. Who knows?

Anyway, I didn't mean to hijack the thread or to carry on, but that's my story.

 

[steveyblack]

i was looking into engineering, but since you said math is really important im wondering now..Im decent in geometry and algebra, idk about trig yet(havnt taken it, im still in HS), same with physics...

idk what engineering to get into, i hear alot of you saying civil/mech. and i just wiki-ed it and it seems to relate with physics alot...Any Advice for me...i still got 2 year to decide what i want to do so im not rushing and im seeing what i like...idk who i heard this from but it went like"if you dont like your career/major you will never get past college"...idk if its true but it sounds plausible....like if i hate one class, i will have more urges to skip it, and when i skip it ill miss what was taught...well you know where im going....

 

[Clip]

well there you go, just find something you're passionate in. theres no one major where you'll get everything you want. most times in the majors you just have to grind it out in some of the classes and enjoy others.

engineering is a helluva lot of math, but i also get to play with cool stuff like cad, milling machines and a kickass budget if i get to help in any research projects.

 

[SupraDerk]

I'm starting my last semester of Computer Engineering at Florida State tomorrow (THANK...GOD!!)

Here are my tidbits of advice:

1) DO NOT SKIP CLASS!!! One day skipped can literally screw you for weeks trying to figure out what the hell you missed, figure out how what you missed works, and then trying to play catcup.

2) Hand write your notes and do not use acronyms. My first couple of years I took incredibly abbreviated notes because at the time I wrote them, they made perfect sense. However, when it came time to study those notes, I had no freaking clue what I was looking at.

On that same note, if you're in a class that uses powerpoint (nothing more annoying than a math heavy class that uses powerpoint to teach), hand write those notes too because a) you'll actually process the stuff at least one time whereas sitting there looking at a slide will do nothing and b) you can write little side notes to explain incredibly vague diagrams or ideas so that you're not hunting all over the internet or books to find the idea

3) Do your math without a calculator, only use it to check your work. It'll make you more confident and it'll be much much more easier for you to take tests and a lot of engineering classes and higher level math classes won't let you use a calculator on a test anyways.

4) Do all of your homework and give it an honest try. You'll be overwhelmed with studying and assignments, but as long as you show your professors you're trying, they'll be much more willing to help you. Also, a lot of my professors took old homework problems and made them test problems, so if you've already done it once, then it should be cake walk the second time.

5) Don't be so hardheaded and arrogant that you think you're above asking others for help. I was when I first got to college... I thought I was the shit cause I was at the top of my high school, but the engineering program definitely humbled me. It's also a great way to get face time with your teachers which helps when you don't have a great day when taking a test, or when internship opportunities come up and when you need recommendations for a job or program.


All in all I've been stressed out as hell for the last 5 years, but I tell you, I've learned so freaking much and not just about engineering, but in other fields. I'll be coming out of school with 4 minors and 3 of them are because of the engineering curriculum... and I admit it's cool to see the reaction on people's face when you tell them you're gonna be an engineer and they just shake your hand and say "bless you... that's something I never could do."


Good luck to you guys just starting out and I hope you stick it out. My "class" (you're pretty much gonna be taking every class with the same people) started out with over 100 freshmen in electrical and computer engineering and now in December there'll be about15-18 of us graduating wit probably about the same in the spring.