jdub said:
the true german 0w-30 is a red labeled one the gold label 0w-30 is the U.S. version just as a little tid bit of info.
Changing from normal to synthetic
- Thread starter Justin
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the true german 0w-30 is a red labeled one the gold label 0w-30 is the U.S. version just as a little tid bit of info.
since we are talking about oil i think this is an apropriate product
http://www.griotsgarage.com/search.jsp?searchtext=oil+filter
it's a magnet that collects all the metal shavings that run though your oil filter
they also have a high performance one that works even better. i live right next to their shop in fife,wa so i headed down to see the display model. they have a little plastic bottle that has oil and alot of shavings in it(enough to not see though the bottle) and when i put the magnet on the bottle every last shaving jumps over to the magnet. i was going to buy two but though they might counter act each other
http://www.griotsgarage.com/search.jsp?searchtext=oil+filter
it's a magnet that collects all the metal shavings that run though your oil filter
they also have a high performance one that works even better. i live right next to their shop in fife,wa so i headed down to see the display model. they have a little plastic bottle that has oil and alot of shavings in it(enough to not see though the bottle) and when i put the magnet on the bottle every last shaving jumps over to the magnet. i was going to buy two but though they might counter act each other
Lets think about this for a moment. What's the purpose of an oil filter...to filter the oil of course 
Oil is routed from the outside of the filter element to the interior of the filter to the motor. It must pass through the filter pleats, unless the pressure inside the oil filter exceeds the limit on the by-pass valve spring...in that case, the oil by passes the filter element and goes direct to the oil passages in the engine. Assuming normal operation, wouldn't the filter element filter out metal particles along with carbon, dirt, etc?
There are several different types of wear metals inside an engine...obviously you want these minimized as much as possible. They include steel alloys/iron, aluminum, copper alloys (brass), etc. The only one of these that a magnet will attract is steel and iron...the rest will just keep going. That's why a good filter is so important...you do not want metal particles, dirt, carbon particles, etc acting like an abrasive to the inside of your motor. If you want to really filter your oil down to the <8 micron level at near 100% efficiency, use a by-pass type filter like a Trasko.
IMO, this particular product (since it's on the filter) is designed to get the $$$ out of your wallet and in to the revenue stream of the company that makes it. I really can't seeing it providing any real benefit. If you want to use a magnetic drain plug to catch some of the larger particles that fall to the bottom of your oil pan so you can see what's going on inside...sure, that would be a good reason. Wrapping a magnet around your filter is not going to do a whole lot...any good filter will remove the metal particles anyway. But, if it makes you feel good...have at it
Oil is routed from the outside of the filter element to the interior of the filter to the motor. It must pass through the filter pleats, unless the pressure inside the oil filter exceeds the limit on the by-pass valve spring...in that case, the oil by passes the filter element and goes direct to the oil passages in the engine. Assuming normal operation, wouldn't the filter element filter out metal particles along with carbon, dirt, etc?
There are several different types of wear metals inside an engine...obviously you want these minimized as much as possible. They include steel alloys/iron, aluminum, copper alloys (brass), etc. The only one of these that a magnet will attract is steel and iron...the rest will just keep going. That's why a good filter is so important...you do not want metal particles, dirt, carbon particles, etc acting like an abrasive to the inside of your motor. If you want to really filter your oil down to the <8 micron level at near 100% efficiency, use a by-pass type filter like a Trasko.
IMO, this particular product (since it's on the filter) is designed to get the $$$ out of your wallet and in to the revenue stream of the company that makes it. I really can't seeing it providing any real benefit. If you want to use a magnetic drain plug to catch some of the larger particles that fall to the bottom of your oil pan so you can see what's going on inside...sure, that would be a good reason. Wrapping a magnet around your filter is not going to do a whole lot...any good filter will remove the metal particles anyway. But, if it makes you feel good...have at it
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your right but think about it this way the more this magnet collects the longer the filter is clean to do its job. if this magnet can collect the iorn and steel then the filter has more room for that copper alumanum and so on.
edit: btw i didnt know that oil filters went from the outside to the inside now im confussed on how the spring in there works i always thought that it went inside to out side of the filter that would have been a much simpler design if you ask me.
edit: btw i didnt know that oil filters went from the outside to the inside now im confussed on how the spring in there works i always thought that it went inside to out side of the filter that would have been a much simpler design if you ask me.
jdub said:
Guys, listen to this statement please. Stop falling for snake oil and start doing your homework.
Jdub can tell you, I run a true synthetic in the 5w-30 weight range. I go 12,000 miles between oil changes. I change filters (good ones) every 4,000 miles. I'm about to upgrade all the cars to Trasko filters so I can go 16,000 miles between changes.
I have multiple motors with over 160,000 + miles on them and I'll be glad to compare motor cleanliness, bearing condition and tolerances to any of you who have done 2,500 mile oil changes and run any mixture of snake oils in your oil, or magnets on your motor. And I'll bet you real money my motors are in better shape than yours.
Stop falling for gimmicks and do your homework. You'll find most of the conventional wisdom about motor oil is garbage, and you'll soon find yourself laughing at all these gimmicks as well.
i didnt buy it thinking its going to prevent a thing i bought it thinking hey it cant hurt. which it cant hurt i understand that doing everything right is the number one way and always will be but hey if it helps it help if it doesnt its there for nothing. but i dont see any possable way that it could hurt my engine so i bought it.
Supracentral said:
whenmunkysfly said:
I will come to your home, light incense, chalk out a pentagram on your garage floor, ring bells and chant all for the low low price of $3500 plus airfare. I will then leave you with a certificate stating that your car and garage are "evil sprirt free".
I don't see any way possible that it could hurt your engine.
I'll be awaiting the funds in my paypal account so I can book the plane tickets.. :icon_razz
JustAnotherVictim
Supramania Contributor
Do you accept credit cards?
I was looking through the pages you linked to and there really wasn't any kind of opinion on the Wix/Dana filters which I usually hear good things about. What about the toyota filter as well, thoughts on those?
I was looking through the pages you linked to and there really wasn't any kind of opinion on the Wix/Dana filters which I usually hear good things about. What about the toyota filter as well, thoughts on those?
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JustAnotherVictim
Supramania Contributor
I like the PureOne due to it's filtration ability...fine media with plenty of sq inch to do an excellent job. The Wix is not quite as good media wise (almost though) and it's by-pass valve design is at the filter opening...this will stop the oil from entering the filter if it should go into by-pass. Both have good sealing ability to the filter head and excellent anti flow back valves.
As JJ said, you can get better filters (Amsoil, Toyota resin type, etc), but you are going to pay double/triple the price. From a conventional full flow filter stand point, it's not worth the $$$ IMO. Like I said, if you really want to filter your oil down to the <8 micron level, get a Trasko. It will spin on in place of your standard filter with no other mods.
As JJ said, you can get better filters (Amsoil, Toyota resin type, etc), but you are going to pay double/triple the price. From a conventional full flow filter stand point, it's not worth the $$$ IMO. Like I said, if you really want to filter your oil down to the <8 micron level, get a Trasko. It will spin on in place of your standard filter with no other mods.
An excellent post by SM. Accurate and covered it all nicely.
Magnets remove only ferrous materials and any in an engine missed by the filter are too small to make any real difference. In hydraulic systems it's a different story though, that's why your tranny has one. If it makes you feel good using a magnet put it inside the filter. A cow magnet "works" and is very cheap.
Almost all filters, oil or otherwise, filter from the outside in. The reason is simple: since the outside diameter is larger it presents more surface area. More surface area means more capacity for any given filter size. Think about a roll of toilet paper. While the typical oil filter's media is much thinner the same theory applies. More surface area is also why filter media is pleated.
The bypass valve on a filter doesn't respond to engine oil pressure. It responds to the differential pressure across the media ie; the difference in pressure between the outside of the filter and the inside. When this pressure exceeds the spring's rating (about 8-11 psi on most filters) the valve opens and oil is routed around the media. Thus the name "bypass valve". The bypass can open if the media is clogged or with very thick, cold oil.
Keep in mind "open" is a relative term. The bypass will open only enough to reduce the delta P back below the spring's rating. If you think about this you'll see some oil will still be going through the filter. It's almost never a case of all the oil being shunted around the media. The filter would have to be 100% clogged for the bypass to be fully open. Having said all that the truth is bypass valves rarely open even a tiny bit because even a "tight" filter like a PureOne or Mobil One can flow 8-9 gallons/minute when new. That's a lot more than the engine will ever need.
For those confused on this stuff I suggest you go buy a filter and cut it open. Examine how it works. Might as buy two, one a Fram and the other something like an OEM or PureOne, so you can see the difference. The $8-10 invested will be a bargain considering what you'll learn.
Magnets remove only ferrous materials and any in an engine missed by the filter are too small to make any real difference. In hydraulic systems it's a different story though, that's why your tranny has one. If it makes you feel good using a magnet put it inside the filter. A cow magnet "works" and is very cheap.
Almost all filters, oil or otherwise, filter from the outside in. The reason is simple: since the outside diameter is larger it presents more surface area. More surface area means more capacity for any given filter size. Think about a roll of toilet paper. While the typical oil filter's media is much thinner the same theory applies. More surface area is also why filter media is pleated.
The bypass valve on a filter doesn't respond to engine oil pressure. It responds to the differential pressure across the media ie; the difference in pressure between the outside of the filter and the inside. When this pressure exceeds the spring's rating (about 8-11 psi on most filters) the valve opens and oil is routed around the media. Thus the name "bypass valve". The bypass can open if the media is clogged or with very thick, cold oil.
Keep in mind "open" is a relative term. The bypass will open only enough to reduce the delta P back below the spring's rating. If you think about this you'll see some oil will still be going through the filter. It's almost never a case of all the oil being shunted around the media. The filter would have to be 100% clogged for the bypass to be fully open. Having said all that the truth is bypass valves rarely open even a tiny bit because even a "tight" filter like a PureOne or Mobil One can flow 8-9 gallons/minute when new. That's a lot more than the engine will ever need.
For those confused on this stuff I suggest you go buy a filter and cut it open. Examine how it works. Might as buy two, one a Fram and the other something like an OEM or PureOne, so you can see the difference. The $8-10 invested will be a bargain considering what you'll learn.
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JustAnotherVictim
Supramania Contributor
Ok, just out of curiosity I'm looking at the Trasko site. If I'm understanding them correctly the filter is a casing and a replaceable filter material inside?
The Trasko is actually a hybrid filter. Above 8-16 psi of oil pressure, the Trasko directs flow through the filter element. Unlike a standard filter, most of the oil is by passed around the filter element itself. Over time the oil is filtered down to the <1 micron level....the media mesh in the filter is 8-10 microns...the rated efficiency is <1 micron. You will not find a filter on the store shelf that is this efficient
Edit: the Trasko 3/4 qt size is 4 1/8" long...the stock filter is 3 3/8" long. About a 3/4" difference...should fit in the stock location. Thread size is 3/4-16.
Edit: the Trasko 3/4 qt size is 4 1/8" long...the stock filter is 3 3/8" long. About a 3/4" difference...should fit in the stock location. Thread size is 3/4-16.
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You have to take that 8-10 micron screen thing with a big grain of salt. Bigger than 8-10 microns anyway. No way those screens are that fine. You could buy some readily available mesh calibration media and try sifting it. I've never done that but long ago checked a Trasko screen with an optical comparator. I don't recall the size but the screens were nowhere near the level they claim. But since a full flow oil filter is pretty much useless for getting the stuff that matters it's not a big deal.
The downside of the Trasko is servicing it. The upside is a no brainer install. Fwiw I only use Traskos on auto trannys. ATF lives a much nicer life than motor oil and the Trasko element works very well and lasts a long time in that application. On the engine I use a "real" bypass setup but the Trasko will work. I much prefer the ease of servicing a regular bypass filter and not having to get under the car at all. Because the full flow remains clean it can last a very long time. Keep in mind if you're running a K&N air filter or some other gravel strainer a bypass filter isn't going to prevent the ring wear and compressor wheel erosion caused by it.
The downside of the Trasko is servicing it. The upside is a no brainer install. Fwiw I only use Traskos on auto trannys. ATF lives a much nicer life than motor oil and the Trasko element works very well and lasts a long time in that application. On the engine I use a "real" bypass setup but the Trasko will work. I much prefer the ease of servicing a regular bypass filter and not having to get under the car at all. Because the full flow remains clean it can last a very long time. Keep in mind if you're running a K&N air filter or some other gravel strainer a bypass filter isn't going to prevent the ring wear and compressor wheel erosion caused by it.
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It's a TI-10S for the stock location. Buy a few extra filter elements with it. Use the 1st element for 3-4000 miles and swap ...that will filter most of the stuff your stock filter has missed that's still floating around in the system.. After that, the filter is suppose to be good for 10K miles...I would check it at the 6-8K point to see how it's doing in your motor.
Keep in mind your oil is still going to darken from use...it will do that regardless of the filter used. How dark will depend on the brand/type oil you run.
A better set-up for this filter is to use a dual filter remote head. Use a full flow and the Trasko in combination...the full flow will catch the larger particles, the Trasko the finer stuff. It will also allow you to use the larger 1 quart size Trasko; the larger filter will last longer. Not to mention changing filters is easier
JJ is right, the screen inside the filter is no where near 8-10 microns...it catches the larger particles. According to Trasko's testing, the filter element (looks like a little roll of TP) is good for 10 microns at 100% with 10 gpm, 5 microns at 97% at 4 gpm then about 88 % at 10 gpm, 3 microns about 96% at 4 gpm then curves down to about 80% at 10 gpm.
Keep in mind your oil is still going to darken from use...it will do that regardless of the filter used. How dark will depend on the brand/type oil you run.
A better set-up for this filter is to use a dual filter remote head. Use a full flow and the Trasko in combination...the full flow will catch the larger particles, the Trasko the finer stuff. It will also allow you to use the larger 1 quart size Trasko; the larger filter will last longer. Not to mention changing filters is easier
JJ is right, the screen inside the filter is no where near 8-10 microns...it catches the larger particles. According to Trasko's testing, the filter element (looks like a little roll of TP) is good for 10 microns at 100% with 10 gpm, 5 microns at 97% at 4 gpm then about 88 % at 10 gpm, 3 microns about 96% at 4 gpm then curves down to about 80% at 10 gpm.
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suprahero said:
Thanks Jay. We'll see. I'm conflicted between helping those who need help, suffering those who're beyond help, and sparring with those who know enough to be dangerous. It all depends on how the balance shifts from one day to the next. Not to mention this pompous ass doesn't have a lot of time these days.
Johnathan, re K&N oil filters: The funny thing is aviation filters have the nut but they need to be torque to a spec that doesn't permit removal by hand. Then they're safety wired to boot. No need for all that on a car.
You already know my feelings on K&N air filters, especially in a dry climate like yours. I can always tell when someone has been running a K&N by the paint erosion on the compressor wheel. For stock and even moderately hyped engines paper will flow all the air needed while giving best filtration. What flow limitations there are exist in the filter box or induction plumbing and not the filter itself. You can easily prove this by using a slack tube manometer.
Next time you have the accordion off put a smear of grease in it. Run for a while and then inspect the grease under magnification. Not all that scientific but a sure way to tell if something is getting by the filter or if there's a leak in the air box.
Contrary to popular belief Karman AFMs can be cleaned. You need to know what to use and where to get it. Be prepared to visit Mexico and then bust a few federal laws bringing it back though. Not worth it in my opinion. I had 5 gallons of the stuff from before the eco-nazis banned it. Have about a gallon left but hate wasting it on anything but very special jobs because of it's unique properties. Why is the best stuff (R12, Halon, DDT, etc) always turn out to be bad? Proves if there is a God he must have a sense of humor.