Car won't start

[starscream5000]

Don't get a shitty oil filter, fill it up with one (1) extra quart of oil in it, it's completely safe and highly recommended with engine as it will get rod knock wicked quick if the bearings don't see oil for a split second. The supra will naturally burn about half a quart of oil every 3000 miles, keep a close eye on it. I check mine weekly when I drive it. A good oil filter to use is wix or purolator pure one (I switched to this one in my DD BTW John ). Stay away from Fram!

Normal maintenance is the key to keeping this car running for a long time. Don't mod the car until you've got it running in tip top condition, if you don't, it'll bite you in the ass. Replace parts such as: vacuum hoses, valve cover gaskets, any other leaky gaskets, retorque the exhaust studs, etc.

 

[canadian]

Why not fram? I've had a few people recommend them to me?

So I shouldn't listen to the dipstick, just put a extra quart then the capacity?

 

[starscream5000]

Fram is made of cardboard on the inside :stickpoke they can't handle high oil pressures and will come appart.

Yes, fill to the full mark, then add an extra quart on top of that, don't listen to what anyone around you says about this, it' won't hurt a thing and will help you out. It takes about 7-8 quarts of oil to even fill up the oil pan entirely.

 

[jdub]

Outstanding! Glad to be of help
Might need a new gasket for the exhaust manifold...get a Toyota OEM. It's a MLS type gasket; much better than the after market ones.

Since you can still get German Castrol in Canada...I highly recommend it. Read this thread...Post #10 tells you where to get it and what to look for on the bottle.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38768

Chris is correct...Fram is crap. Wix or PureOne filters are what you want to use. Here's why:

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42763

Make sure you use Dexron ATF for the PS pump. I like Castrol Dex III/Mercon.

Since you're using Red Line MT-90 in the tranny, that pretty much covers the fluids. You can use the RP Max Gear you purchased in the LSD...remember to open the fill plug on the differential 1st if you decide to change it.

Question: What type head gasket is this, is it new, and what type bolts are holding it on? What torque did you use to tighten down the head?

 

[starscream5000]

Hold your nose when changing the LSD fluid

I hoard the German Castrol .

 

[canadian]

Outstanding! Glad to be of help
Might need a new gasket for the exhaust manifold...get a Toyota OEM. It's a MLS type gasket; much better than the after market ones.

Since you can still get German Castrol in Canada...I highly recommend it. Read this thread...Post #10 tells you where to get it and what to look for on the bottle.

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38768

Chris is correct...Fram is crap. Wix or PureOne filters are what you want to use. Here's why:

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42763

Make sure you use Dextron ATF for the PS pump. I like Castrol Dex III/Mercon.

Since you're using Red Line MT-90 in the tranny, that pretty much covers the fluids. You can use the RP Max Gear you purchased in the LSD...remember to open the fill plug on the differential 1st if you decide to change it.

Question: What type head gasket is this, is it new, and what type bolts are holding it on? What torque did you use to tighten down the head?

The headgasket is a OEM style gasket. Just to hold me over until spring. I used the factory studs (yikes!) with the recommened torque I found on here for the fac. studs.
Not the best route, but it's just a band-aid for now. Plus, I won't be driving the car until the spring

I put in a new gasket with the exhaust manifold, so that shouldn't be a problem. I hope not at least...


I will look for one of the four mentioned oil filters in that thread, thanks.



Any idea why the ATF went foamy in the PS?

 

[jdub]

The OEM HG is fine...a lot more sturdy that is given credit for. Just so long you don't up the boost to crazy levels and you torqued to 68-70 ft/lbs.

The Wix (NAPA Gold) or PureOne should be the least expensive.

BTW - the German Castrol only comes in 0W-30. Don't let some "parts guy" tell you that's too thin...that oil will exceed your needs and you will not have to change it for 5K miles at minimum...8K if you change filters at the 4K point.

The ATF is foamy likely because of air in the system. It also might be contaminated from sitting...might consider changing it.

 

[canadian]

The OEM HG is fine...a lot more sturdy that is given credit for. Just so long you don't up the boost to crazy levels and you torqued to 72-75 ft/lbs.

The Wix (NAPA Gold) or PureOne should be the least expensive.

BTW - the German Castrol only comes in 0W-30. Don't let some "parts guy" tell you that's too thin...that oil will exceed your needs and you will not have to change it for 5K miles at minimum...8K if you change filters at the 4K point.

The ATF is foamy like because of air in the system. It also might be contaminated from sitting...might consider changing it.

Air in the system makes sense. Its not as foamy anymore.
BUT my power steering is very stiff, probably because of lack of fluid?
While it was off the engine it tipped over and a lot of the fluid came out of the pump.

The fluid is clean and new, and it was changed, so it shouldn't be contaminated?

I won't be boosting this engine like crazy at all, it's stock as a rock.

Might get a days insurance on it so I can drive it for once. Then I will be away from it until april...

 

[jetjock]

Dub: not that you'd be the first to do it (far from it) but there is no "t" is Dexron

 

[jdub]

Doh!

 

[starscream5000]

The headgasket is a OEM style gasket. Just to hold me over until spring. I used the factory studs (yikes!) with the recommened torque I found on here for the fac. studs.

Factory uses BOLTS, and they are torque-to-yeild IIRC. In other words, once you take them off, you replace them with new ones. ARP hardware can be reused again and again if you don't mangle them and torque them to the proper specs.

 

[tlo86]

glad you got your car running

 

[canadian]

I've read other people on here re using their headbolts though?
It's only temporary anyways, maybe an hour or so of driving on them, max.

 

[jdub]

You should be fine re-using them...just so long you went to the torque I posted above.

 

[starscream5000]

John, the stock head bolts are torque-to-yeild, correct?

 

[jdub]

From one of Reg Reimer's tech write-ups:

Recently I purchased a pair of new head bolts from my local Toyota dealership. One bolt from the 1995 Supra 2JZ-GTE engines, as well as a new bolt from the 7M-GTE. I then contracted a local certified engineering metallurgical company to perform tensile strength tests on the head bolts to compare yield strengths and torque values.

I have lab data reports based on the ASTM A370 tensile test, giving tensile strength, yield strength, ultimate load, yield load, as well as deformation data and maximum tightening torque values for the head bolts from the 2JZ GTE and 7M-GTE engines. Some results of the test are given below.

7M head bolt is: 12mm-1.25mm thread pitch {Property Class 10.9 grade 8} yield strength=147,353 PSI... tensile strength=160,550 PSI... ultimate load=70,198 N... % elongation=17... % reduction of area=66 2J head bolt is: 11mm-1.25mm thread pitch {Property Class 10.9 grade 8} yield strength=148,948 PSI... tensile strength=162,581 PSI... ultimate load=68,997 N... % elongation=19... % reduction of area=66

The metals used in the head bolts of the 7M & 2JZ engines are identical in metallurgy +/- manufacturing S.P.C. This is a good material; it stretches smoothly in the plastic region of the curve before it snaps.

By calculating the unit strain for each of the different areas of bolts based on the average yield strength, the following total elongation numbers were calculated. The 7M bolt has a total elongation of .0134" {.3399mm}, and the 2JZ bolt has a total elongation of .01093" {.2775mm}.

By comparing the elongation differences of the bolts, related to the corresponding different thickness of the aluminum in the engines cylinder heads, and allowing for the total length of the bolt shank plus 50% of the length of the threads, the only apparent difference is that the 2JZ bolt has 36 percent more thread than the 7M bolt does. The 7M & 2JZ bolts appear to be designed with the same steel to aluminum expansion stretch theory. I believe the bolt designs are different only because of the different ratio of the bolts metal area versus the thickness of the aluminum cylinder heads the bolt is designed to hold down. The torquing procedure for the two head bolts is also different, as is the head gasket

Toyota service manuals say that the 7M engines head bolt torque specification is 52 to 58 ft. lbs. According to my findings the 52 to 58 ft. lbs. specification for the 7M might be too low a torque value to keep the bolt in acceptable tension, not to mention the normal compression of the head gasket after time. As mentioned earlier many 7M engines that experience head gasket failures have many head bolts that can be removed from the engines failed cylinders by hand, or are very loose when removed.

My calculations show that the 7M head bolts when torqued to the factory specifications of 52 to 58 ft. lbs. is in very low tension related to the bolts actual yield curve. Calculations based on my test data show torque values for the 7M head bolt could be as high as 68 ft. lbs. to 72 ft. lbs. without putting the bolt into the plastic region. On a cold engine this extra torque would allow more tension on the head bolts after the head gasket compresses to normal operating thickness.

I have not been able to find specifically where the OEM bolts are TTY, but I suspect that they are. Based on Reg's write-up, when the bolts are torqued to factory specs you are taking it into the beginning of it's inelastic range...in effect "using up" only part of the inelastic deformation available. If you reuse it when you torque it again to 68-70 ft/lbs you will go that much farther into the range available determined by the bolt's material. The OEM bolts will simply stretch a bit further and still provide the clamping force necessary. The danger is the second time an OEM bolt is torqued it might reach its limit and fracture....Reg's testing suggests otherwise up to 68-70 ft/lbs. Otherwise there is no engineering reason why you couldn't use it more than once if the bolt was not torqued to 68-70 ft/lbs previously. Folks do the same thing when they do a re-torque, increasing to 70 ft/lbs in an effort to prevent a BHG.

Some more info on TTY bolts:

When a TTY bolt is torqued beyond its yield point, the bolt:

- Necks,
- Loses its elasticity (it won't shrink back to its original length when removed),
- It's clamping strength decreases from its maximum just before yielding (thus a TTY bolt that has yielded has less clamp strength than it did just before it yielded — you would expect this because its cross-sectional area has diminished at the point where it necked),
- Its clamping strength is independent of small incremental changes in its stretched length. (In a non-TTY bolt, on the other hand, clamping strength is proportional to stretched length — to make up some numbers, a non-TTY bolt stretched to 6.00" clamps with less force than if it were stretched to 6.02".) We'll get back to the importance of this point below.)

The advantage of TTY bolts is that, after they have yielded, they all have more or less the same clamping force. Therefore, the head bolt tension is uniform across the head. In the old days, when non-TTY bolts were used, the tension could very much depend on the physical condition of the individual bolts — surface oxidation, microscopic burrs on threads, grease, dirt on threads, etc. even when the same tightening torque was applied. Also, clamping tension of non-TTY bolts was critically sensitive to the torque applied to the bolts. TTY bolts are not that sensitive to torquing angle, so if they are torqued anywhere between, say, 75º to 105º for example (I don't know the actual acceptable range of angles) they will all still clamp to pretty much the same clamp strength. This makes manufacture in an engine plant so much easier.

A second point: in the very old days, new cars were sold with a 500-mile check up, during which the car dealers' mechanics re-torqued the head bolts on new cars they had sold. This was because, with non-TTY bolts, if the head gasket "squished" a little more under head bolt A than under head bolt B, head bolt A would apply less clamping force than head bolt B, because:

- Head bolt A is now slightly shorter than head bolt B due to the greater gasket collapse under A than at B,
- Both bolts are still in their elastic range, so their clamping force is proportion to the length they are stretched (like a rubber band, for example).

TTY bolts however, which have passed their yield point, are no longer in their elastic range, so the clamp force is independent of small changes in bolt length. (See "bullet 4 above.) Thus re-torquing is not necessary.

A couple of points:
- The OEM bolts are not torqued past their yield point at factory torque specs.
- According to Reg's test, the factory bolts do not approach their max yield until 68-70 ft/lbs...the bolts are not yet in the plastic region.

Since TTY bolts will provide the same approx amount of clamping force across a torque range, what you are actually doing is taking the bolt further into the inelastic region of the bolt material. This is providing additional resistance to the bolt loosening up from the different expansion rates between the aluminum head and steel block. This is what's preventing a BHG, not significant additional clamping force on the HG...a small, but very important detail

I would have no problem re-using OEM bolts if they have not been previously torqued to the specs Reg recommends, especially on an OEM HG. If they had been torqued higher, IMO they should not be re-used...they do not spring back to provide the elasticity necessary to provide the clamping force to seal the HG and if you torque higher than the 68-70 ft/lbs Reg determined, you are risking breaking the bolt (especially when you consider head expansion from heat).

 

[starscream5000]

10-4

For future reference. If the head has been re-torqued, or you suspect it has been, and to the higher torque value that's recommended, DON'T reuse the stock head bolts. Correct?

 

[jdub]

I wouldn't, but it's been done on many occasions with no apparent problem. IMO, the risk of head expansion (especially during an overheat) snapping a bolt is something I would not want to deal with. ARP bolts/studs are just not that expensive.

 

[starscream5000]

I agree, preventative maintenance is the key.

 

[canadian]

Thanks for the link. I'm still learning, this site is awesome!