Car won't start. Fuel injectors quit firing while cranking.

[deabionni]

Update on post #26!

I'm just finishing up my GE to GTE swap, and I'm having trouble getting the car to fire up. The engine turns over, fires a few times, but dies before it has a chance to start. After that, as long as you continue cranking the engine; the engine will crank over but not even try to fire. If you try starting it again, the whole process repeats itself. Tries to fire, but dies before it starts.

The car is getting spark, but it seems as if it's not getting enough fuel. I have fuel pressure, but I don't think that there's enough fuel being injected into the engine. The car will start as long as there is starter fluid or carb cleaner being sprayed into the engine; but as soon as you stop spraying, the engine dies again.

 

[deabionni]

Update: The cold start injector isn't firing. A test light shows that one side of the connector to the injector is hot while cranking the engine, but the injector itself doesn't fire. I switched the CSI for a known working injector, and it still doesn't fire.

 

[jetjock]

An inop CSI won't prevent the engine from starting. That said the thermal time switch (and the ECU but only when the coolant is very cold) supplies ground to the CSI. You should check that.

 

[89TargaT]

There any codes?

 

[deabionni]

^^^Why didn't I think to check for codes?

The codes that showed up are:

14 - Ignition Signal -->There was a short period before we got the car to start where the coils weren't firing at first, but they're firing now.

22 - Water Temp Sensor Signal --> This code isn't surprising, as I still haven't figured out what's supposed to be hooked up to this sensor. (See pic above).

24 - Intake Air Temp Sensor Signal --> ??? Is there a separate air intake sensor that I don't know of, or is it built into the AFM?

51 - Switch Signal --> Could this be the A/C switch that I don't have hooked up, as I seem to be missing that sensor? (See pic above).

JJ, I'm still trying to track down what's keeping the CSI from working. The plug is hot on one side while cranking, but I'm getting nothing on the other (ECU?) side. Could this be because I still don't have the ECU temp sensor hooked up? Also, does anyone know what color the wires running to the ECU temp sensor are supposed to be?

 

[jetjock]

1) Code 14 will keep the engine from starting but if you're sure about spark the code might be old. Clear all codes and try again to see what gets set.

2) The two wire green connector goes to the ECI coolant temp sensor, also green. The wire colors should be green and brown.

3) The IAT sensor is indeed integral to the AFM.

4) No, that won't cause it. It could be because you have the AC button on or because the transmission is not in P or N if you're auto. Most likely it's from the TPS though.

As I said the Thermal Time Switch supplies ground to the CSI when the coolant temp is cold. If you unplug it and connect pin 2 (green wire) to ground the CSI should work.

 

[deabionni]

Thanks, JJ. You're a huge help figuring out this wire mess. It does appear as if I had the ECU temp sensor plugged into the wrong thing, as I has it hooked up the the cold start switch.

Do you know what color wires I'm looking for to hook up to the cold start switch? I still have a gray & brown wire with an odd connector that's not yet hooked up to anything; as the plug doesn't match any sensor.

Also, thanks for the input on codes 24 & 51. I'll test the AFM and TPS per the TSRM, and replace any sensors if necessary. (After checking the A/C button, of course).

Hopefully, I'll have this beast starting soon.

 

[jetjock]

Thr green connector on the left goes to the coolant sensor. It doesn't appear from the picture you had it plugged into the thermal switch. It appears you have that one right although I've never seen green thermal switch connector. The wire colors on the cold start switch should be green and black with a light blue stripe.

The only thing there that would cause your symptoms (fires but dies) is the lack of a coolant temp input. It would prevent prevent cold enrichment. Hook that one up and the engine just might start and run.

As for the black connector and the start time switch one being green the problem is I'm not completely familiar with the GE wiring you still have. The thermostat housing is also a bit different than what I'm used to. That said you realize there are pictures of all these connectors along with their colors in the TEWD right? Makes for easy identification

 

[deabionni]

As for the black connector and the start time switch one being green the problem is I'm not completely familiar with the GE wiring you still have. The thermostat housing is also a bit different than what I'm used to. That said you realize there are pictures of all these connectors along with their colors in the TEWD right? Makes for easy identification

I noticed that there's some confusion with the first picture. I have an extra connector hooked up to the cold start switch in that pic. That's just an extra connector I had, and I was test fitting it to make sure it fit the cold start switch just in case I have to wire it into this harness. That connector is not actually part of this harness I'm using.

The harness (supposedbly) came from a turbo car with an automatic, so this harness is for a GTE, not a GE. Everything looks like it can plug in somewhere, except for the blue plug (which I know I'm missing that switch), and the cold start switch; which I don't have a plug for. The only extra plug I have, is the black plug in the first picture; and the wires going to it are gray & brown. I don't have any plug that has a green and black w/ blue stripe wire.

And yes, I've been looking through the TEWD. That's how I got this far.

 

[deabionni]

Ok. All of the codes are clear, except for the code 51. The TPS needs to be replaced, as it doesn't pass the tests per the TSRM. Once replaced, that should cure the code 51.

The problem is with the firing of the injectors. The injectors fire when the engine first starts cranking, but quit firing just before the engine starts. What could cause the injectors to fire, then quit firing within a few seconds?

 

[deabionni]

UPDATE: Everything the car was doing while cranking indicated that the ECU wasn't receiving the IGf signal while cranking. The injectors would pulse twice, then stop. The only weird thing was, if it was lack of an IGf signal; I wasn't getting a code 14 like I should have. That said, testing for the IGf signal (or lack of) was the next step in troubleshooting.

I pulled the ECU, and unplugged all connectors to figure out which pin was the wire for the IGf. I plugged everything back in, and now I no longer have a check engine light, and the oil pressure gauge doesn't work. Also, the engine doesn't even try to fire when I crank it. I unplugged everything and reconnected it at least twice, and still nothing. I tried wiggling the connectors, and that doesn't make a difference.

I'm thinking that there may be an "open" or cut wire by the ECU. I unwrapped the wiring by the ECU, and this is what I found. Can anyone tell me if this looks normal?

I believe that this is a ground wire that splices with the insulated wire, than goes nowhere. Is this normal?

I believe that my problem is either with this wiring, or the ECU itself. Any help is appreciated.

 

[jetjock]

"Primum non nocere"

You should not have had to remove the connectors to ID any pins but I guess that's moot now.

Anyway, someone's been in there. Looks like a KS rewire was done. I'd forget about that for now and just focus on getting power back to the ECU. If you confirm power but still have no MIL you'll need to confirm the MIL is good. If you think about it you won't have to pull the cluster for that. If everything checks out you may have a bad ECU. I sort of doubt it though. I'm betting you disturbed something in that poorly modded wiring

 

[deabionni]

This might sound like a dumb question, but what's MIL?

EDIT: Nevermind, I've always heard it referred to as a CEL instead of a MIL. I know the light is good, so I'm not getting power to the ECU like I should.

Also, would losing power to the ECU also cause the oil pressure gauge to quit working? I know that the CEL and the oil pressure gauge work off from the same plug, so that may help isolate my problem.

 

[jetjock]

Loss of power to the ECU won't prevent the oil gage from working. That's powered by the gage fuse, as are most of the instruments in the cluster. Since the MIL is also powered by the gage fuse you might want to check that fuse and circuit.

 

[deabionni]

Thank you! I'll check that out. That at least tells me that even if my ECU were dead, the oil pressure gauge should work. Since I lost both, I'll bet the problem is with this harness.

I'm still trying to figure out all of these splices on this harness. I'd bet everything that all of my problems lie within this harness.

 

[deabionni]

Also, what do you make of this?

This looks like a ground, but should it be running to the ECU somewhere; or is it supposed to be taped off like that?

 

[jetjock]

Dunno. What pin on which connector does it go to? Might be part of a KS rewire. Maybe a ground for the shield. Hard to tell from the pic.

 

[deabionni]

I think it is a ground for the shield. It runs to pin OX. (Oxygen sensor)?

 

[jetjock]

If that's the case it needs to be connected to either E1 or chassis ground. Same difference.

 

[deabionni]

Thank you. I'll make sure I ground that wire.