Car will not start?

[kssweeper28]

Well I posted a few days ago about another car running a TO4E and maftpro along with a million other mods it seems like, but just to make sure you guys dont get mixed up. I have an 1987 Turbo Supra. The motor is a JDM motor with low mileage on it as they all say. I got it built with ARP's througout, clevite 77's on the main,rod and thrust washers. Cometic 1.5mm HG. Radius valve job. Head machined with block and timing cover. Anyways I think that is enough on the motor. Well obviously as you can tell, as the title states. My car will not start. I am getting fuel, have 35 psi in the gauge that is on the fuel rail and when I crank it, it kind of smells like fuel > BUT I am getting spark, although not the strongest spark, when I crank it for a few seconds, i see the spark a few times. I set my timing according to the TSRM about a million times now. Also looked on jbl's homepage on the CPS alignment. So I have the main things done. BTW I have got code 41 - Throttle Position Sensor. Tomorrow I am going to swap one off of a running car. TB and TPS still attached and see if that clears anything up. Maybe my ignition timing is way off. I will be getting a timing light tomorrow and hitting it with that a go from there. Other than that..... Any help will be greatly appreciated? THX IN ADVANCE.......

 

[MDCmotorsports]

Need a picture of your "said" correct CPS setting with the cps cover off.

Next, need to check for boost leak or check to make sure the injectors are firing in order.

 

[RTA Supra]

glad you're finally getting the timing light From what we've been talking about the last week, I still think the problems in cps, or timing

 

[kssweeper28]

Need a picture of your "said" correct CPS setting with the cps cover off.

Next, need to check for boost leak or check to make sure the injectors are firing in order.

Here is how I have my CPS aligned ----- http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17156&highlight=CPS

5th Post on there but with the notches lined up how it says in the text in the pic.

Now is there any other way to check for a boost leak with out an air compressor. I do not have one but can make the boost leak tester real quick. Hmm..

And on the injector firing - Here is a wiring diagram, Meaning the wiring coloring for the injectors are as follows

1 & 4 are the same colors - (yellow and white/blue)
2 & 5 are the same - (black and white/red)
3 & 6 are the same - (white and red)

I will have to double check on that tomorrow.
But anyways is that what you are referring to or what?

 

[kssweeper28]

One ? ..... Maybe my Coil Plug Order is incorrect? I am not talking about the plug wires at all. I mean the 3 plugs beneath where the spark plug wires plug into the coil pack itself. Could those be mixed up somehow?

 

[kssweeper28]

I made it somewhere today. As I stated I was getting code 41. So I took a TPS and TB still attached off of a running car and put it on GOODBYE 41. I swapped plugs, the others were the E3's (SHIT) I just wanted to try them out. I made sure my timing was good. I tried to hit it with the timing light but I think I will do that later or when i get the car fired up. I made sure my firing order was good. And indeed it was. Also my injector firing order. Which was good. No vacuum leaks or boost leaks BTW. Now I have checked all my fuses. My fuel pressure gauge on the rail was reading 38 PSI but when I crank the motor, it drops to 30 or so. So I just double checked if I was getting fuel, I took off the bolt on the fuel line that is right by the alternator and cranked it. No fuel sprewed out there! So what do you know. I am not getting fuel, but why does the exhaust smell like fuel when its cranked and my plugs smell like fuel. Or am I? I tried to get the hardline off that comes from the tank but just couldnt get it loose. Maybe some PB blaster will do the job. Have any of you ever removed the same bolt I removed and shot fuel everywhere? I think I am getting somewhere with this. Help please... THX

 

[kssweeper28]

Should I go after the fuel filter or the pump?

 

[johnathan1]

Have you checked your fuel pressure vsv? It's one of the VSV attached under the intake manifold, make sure all of the vacuum lines are hooked up to it, and the red connector is attached.

Also, a bad TPS would still allow the car to start.

 

[cadman]

I'm sorry, but I really have to ask. Does the tank of gas in it?

And I swear I'm not trying to be funny. But I went through this all with a buddy of mine that told me he wasn't getting fuel to his Prelude. We checked everything, and I mean... everything. We spent I dont' know, 5 hours on it. I then just curious, turned the car on and looked at the fuel guage. It read empty. So I asked my friend, "Hey, is your fuel guage broken, or are you really out of gas?". Yes, he was out of gas.

Anyway, I'm so sorry I'm not trying to make anyone feel stupid, just a question.

 

[RTA Supra]

it's always the stupid little shit that takes hours to find. I'm sure there's no harm in that question. I'm sure I've asked him that on our little "diagnosing" phone calls

 

[kssweeper28]

OK guys an update to the thread. I am getting fuel. Earlier I had drained about 7 gallons of gas. Now put in 5 new. I am getting fuel to my rail. But now, i took of the #6 cylinder spark plug and i can almost swear there was no spark but thats what i said about the fuel problem damn! I am getting spark from #1 cylinder though. Havent checked the rest, now we are on to the spark issue... HA sry guys. THX 4 the help....

 

[Nick M]

Crank the engine for 10 seconds and pull the number one plug. See if it is wet with fuel.

The motor is a JDM motor with low mileage on it as they all say. I got it built with ARP's througout, clevite 77's on the main,rod and thrust washers.

You saved yourself a headache later down the road by inspecting the crank.

 

[kssweeper28]

OK I will go see if the spark plug is wet with fuel, I know they smell like fuel, but I dont know about wet? 1 second.....

 

[RTA Supra]

no spark eh? hmmmmmmm I remember SOMEONE saying something about that.........hmmmm

 

[antman]

yes. make sure the pump is working. fuel pressure sounds alittle low.

 

[kssweeper28]

OK now that I have solved those problems. I swapped in a coil pack that was off of a running car. I got spark now. I have 38 psi in the rail meaning I have fuel. Now I cranked the car for 10 seconds and took out the #1 spark plug and it was not wet with fuel by far, but did smell a little like fuel, not a lot though. Now when I check for codes, the check engine light blinks repeatedly. I am guessing I have no codes! WOOT! Any suggestions on where to go next?

 

[kssweeper28]

I have an idea. Maybe my injectors arent firing. I have heard that stethoscope method with the screwdriver listen to see if they are firing. Noid light maybe? Where to get one? I ran the DMM to all injectors and they all have 12V. Cause my plugs definately not soaked or wet in fuel. Or maybe they are clogged? How can I figure this out... THX> HELP PLEASE.....

 

[Nick M]

If you know you have good spark, that narrows it down to ignition timing from an incorrect CPS, cam/engine timing, or fuel delivery. If the cam timing is off, you will spark and have fuel, but it sure as shit won't light.

If you have B+ coming from the resistor, I would not susupect an injection problem, unless you have a harness problem for some reason.

 

[kssweeper28]

If you know you have good spark, that narrows it down to ignition timing from an incorrect CPS, cam/engine timing, or fuel delivery. If the cam timing is off, you will spark and have fuel, but it sure as shit won't light.

If you have B+ coming from the resistor, I would not susupect an injection problem, unless you have a harness problem for some reason.

OK well then thats narrows the problem way down. I have fuel. I have air. I have spark, not the best but probably due to timing issues. I have the 3 things you need a motor to run other than the timing correctly. I have messed with the CPS about 30 times now. Really, someone tell me how I am doing this wrong? Maybe my cam timing is good but my ignition timing is way off? Who knows.

But anyways to set the cam timing:

1. Line the crank up to zero
2. Make sure the cam gears line up with the cam gear backing plate, the two notches. MEANS TDC?
3. Insert CPS.

The TSRM says insert CPS at TDC and I have also talked to alot of other people saying the same although I read this thread yesterday where it had the following steps for timing?

1. The first thing I do is turn the engine clockwise until I see the lobe of the #1
intake cam through the oil filler hole

2. I then turned the engine 120 degrees counterclockwise

3. and then 10 - 40 degrees clockwise.


The TSRM also said turn the motor 120 degress where then the cam lobe is facing up through the filler hole and then insert. IDK Someone guide me in the right direction. THX.....

 

[johnathan1]

Okay, so you have fuel and spark, just not at the right time? Is that right?

Have you checked all of your wiring from the CPS? take the connector apart, and look to see if one isn't making contact, and that everything looks okay. Do the wire colors for the CPS match up? It should look like this:

Harness side - /- CPS side

Red - / - Green
Blue - / - Red
Black - / - White
Yellow - / - Yellow

Also, your timing belt could be off one tooth...I would take off both cam pulleys, and make sure the dowel/pin is in the center slot, and don't use that 120 degree, 10-40 degree method to set the timing, that sounds confusing. I would just use the TSRM way, and make sure everything is lined up.

You are lining up the CPS properly before inserting it, correct?

1. Line up center mark on driven gear to the notch a little higher up on the shaft.
2. Slide it in with the bolt hole in the head lined up with the center of the flange.

Could you also take a picture of the CPS w/ it's cover off? So that we can tell you if it's set properly?