Can Supras Turn?

[staticpat]

Alrighty I've been trying to sell my car and get into something a little more race friendly. It's not going well, banks don't enjoy loaning more than $100 for a 20 year old Toyota.

Before I do something stupid and sell my supra for half of what its worth, I'd like to know if it could potentially be my race car. I plan to use the car for rallycross, the occasional autocross, and potentially rally in a few years. I don't want any part of street driving/racing, drag etc.

I realize its not what the car is made for, I realize the supra is a boat. But I already have tons of parts, 3 sets of rims, and lots of experience working on them. The car is a hardtop, makes power, has a pain in the ass race clutch, good brakes, and many luxuries already removed. Half the work is already done, the car is barely streetable as is.

So my question for the racers is can the supra turn? I have seen a couple at the auto-x but one has BHG and the other has rod knock, so that sets a bad tone. If I was to dedicate the car to racing I could trim a ton of bodyfat, and fit a proper suspension.

My main goal isn't to win but I'd like to be competitive. Having a unique car is a big plus, I don't want a miata. The classes for rallycross focus on drivetrain, so I would be competing against other modified rwd cars (mr2s, rx7s, etc.) not heavy gt cars.

The power steering feels really responsive but the car doesn't want to turn. Is the weight the problem? Is the wheel base to long? 240s seem to be about the same size and I've seen some impressive turning out of them. Why not? Who here auto-x's or roadcourse's their supra? Is it worth it?

Thanks!

 

[88YotaTurbo]

I have done a few autox events in the past. I've driven my car with stock tire size and experience a ton of push like you are describing. As soon as I upgraded to competition tires (Falken rt-615) and a good size (255 40 17 all four corners) I had no more push at auto x speeds say top of second 60ish?
I could dive in to the turn hard and almost full brake and the car would amazingly turn no issue.
Mods currently on car and during autox events now:
Koni shocks Eibach race springs
Rt-615 rubber and 17x9 wheels (kinda heavy but inexpensive)
BPU 10psi
~260-280whp

I hope this helped you a little bit.

 

[annoyingrob]

I've driven my car with stock tire size and experience a ton of push like you are describing. As soon as I upgraded to competition tires (Falken rt-615) and a good size (255 40 17 all four corners) I had no more push at auto x speeds say top of second 60ish?

There's the answer right there for you.

The Supra IS a boat, BUT, with enough grip on the front, it will turn. I run Yokohama AVS Sport 255s on the FRONT, and they grip hard enough to make this thing turn pretty crazy.

If you have a set of MKIV wheels, I would suggest trying the 9.5s up front and see how you like the handling. A guy by the username of Keros on this forum runs a set of MKIVs backwards, with 265s in the front. Grips pretty well.

 

[darkspeed]

eliminate some of that weight in the front by weight reduction or relocation (hatch mount the battery, etc).

who needs A/C? that's a good 40 lbs of dead weight.

 

[azrael]

Why reduce weight on a mkIII to make it competitive in racing when you can just reduce year? ;P

As true as that may be, I've seen a handful of MkIIIs that beat the living crap out of Miatas and other lame roadsters on the auto-x course. It CAN be done, so persevere and keep the Supra thing goin!

 

[88YotaTurbo]

Why reduce weight on a mkIII to make it competitive in racing when you can just reduce year? ;P

As true as that may be, I've seen a handful of MkIIIs that beat the living crap out of Miatas and other lame roadsters on the auto-x course. It CAN be done, so persevere and keep the Supra thing goin!

Ditto miatas are slow. If the track is set up for anything else except technical tight turns you will crush them.

 

[supraguru05]

aparently you have never seen a turbo miata

 

[azrael]

aparently you have never seen a turbo miata

Turbo miatas are a bit scary. Nonetheless, a turbo supra that can turn only has...what, almost twice the displacement, and in a lot of cases absurd power figures?

Crush. With an iron fist.

 

[staticpat]

Wow you pose convincing arguments, I figured I would be mocked and told to buy a subaru. Some research tells me that the wheelbase on the evo is about the same as the supra, and its even wider. And my brother told me that a 3000gt won pike's peak back in the day. Those cars are even fatter than the supra, and if they can turn I'm sure I can.

So it sounds like if I trim some major fat and balance the weight better, add some traction it could be competitive. If I add some fat tires maybe my car won't be drift city on the twisties. I have a pre-89 hardtop so weight is in my favor already. If I'm serious about this the A/C is one of many things to be removed (anyone need a grey interior?) . How light can you get one of these?

Keep in mind I will be rallycrossing, so my competition won't be miatas. It will be mostly 80s RWD cars. Though if I spend some time on supracharged.com, a 4wd conversion could be in my future. Wishful thinking .

 

[bowsercake]

Miatas have a homefield advantage with autocross.

Race them on your own terms if you want to make a better comparison.

 

[IJ.]

Winding mountain roads my car generates enough G loads to become painful
(One pass I run now and again I get about 75% though and start to think "I really don't want to do this anymore please stop it's hurting")

Set up correctly the Mk3 suspension is a thing of beauty when you consider the mass of the car, I have G Sensors in the car now and will log the above road next time.

 

[upgradedsupra]

Winding mountain roads my car generates enough G loads to become painful
(One pass I run now and again I get about 75% though and start to think "I really don't want to do this anymore please stop it's hurting")

Set up correctly the Mk3 suspension is a thing of beauty when you consider the mass of the car, I have G Sensors in the car now and will log the above road next time.

MoTeC FTW :biglaugh:

I love the Supra and wouldn't choose anything else.

Duane

 

[AaronsSupraMKIII]

I can use that interior. My green one is hurting for it..lol

If I'm serious about this the A/C is one of many things to be removed (anyone need a grey interior?) . How light can you get one of these?

 

[screaminglemon]

turn? i say yes...




did someone say rally?

 

[Supracentral]

Winding mountain roads my car generates enough G loads to become painful
(One pass I run now and again I get about 75% though and start to think "I really don't want to do this anymore please stop it's hurting")

Set up correctly the Mk3 suspension is a thing of beauty when you consider the mass of the car, I have G Sensors in the car now and will log the above road next time.

QFT - The MKIII can be a monster of a road car with the right prep work.

Slap a set of coilovers and a set of Kuhmo VictoRacer V700's on it and prepare to be truly SHOCKED by well one can handle.

 

[IJ.]

Mike: I think people see the Mk4 as the better handling Supra but forget that it's skidpad numbers are helped a LOT by the improvement in rubber between the years

Mk3 Suspension is the #1 reason I bought mine as it was lightyears ahead of anything else around at the time.

 

[staticpat]

Alright I guess I will start looking through the classes and see where I would fit in. The rally mkiii was neat and all, but it was NA and they seemed to ditch the platform pretty quick. I don't really think its a good representation for what someone could build without sponsors either. I do remember seeing a red mkiv race at Targa Newfoundland last year though. That's more motivation for me.

My next big issue to worry about is my turbo setup. I don't think 360rwhp will fare well in the dirt. It has enough lag that I won't be utilizing it as much as I should. And when it does the turbo kicks on way too powerful. I'm not sure if I will get into the boost or not on rallycross. I need to decide if that is a good or bad thing. A set of small twins with higher compression or a motor swap (1g-gte ftw!) may be a good alternative if rules allow it.

The last rallycross of this season is in a couple weeks. I was planning on running my rx7. Maybe I will give the supra a go and see if its worth pursuing.
If I'm serious I'll start a build thread and get some ideas/support.

Aaron I spent a couple years piecing my interior together, its not immaculate, but its all in really nice shape. Scott (ForcedTorque) got me the last couple pieces I needed in March. So if your serious, I'll hold onto it for you. It won't be free though .

P.S. Does anyone have some sawblades with snow tires they will give me for free?

 

[honestabe]

Wait a minute, you want to swap in a 1G-GTE? That motor is underpowered, and has a really small aftermarket. Good luck getting parts too. If you don't want to worry about lag and have twins, get a 1J or 2J. My 1J has almost no lag, and packs plenty of punch.

As far as turning goes, there are plenty of braces you can install. Front and rear strut braces, lower frame brace, Do-Luck floor brace that goes over the drive shaft tunnel where the rear passengers put their feet, TMS harness bar if you want to go 4 or 5-point, rear sub-frame arms. That's all that I can think of off the top of my head. Add those with a nice set of coilovers (Tein Control Master FTW), and a sticky set of wide tires front and rear and you're set.

Adam

 

[prsrcokr]

The mk3 can be made to turn pretty well, if you are talking transitional agility, look to a wider wheel for the given tire. I run 17x9/17x10 w/ 235/255 which handles quick transitions much better than the same size tires on 8/9" wheels.

Swaybars are also a big help in this area, I don't have high rate springs yet so can't speak for those but I'm sure they'll help overall grip. It's an east car to control via throttle IMO, which should be pretty important in rally but will the suspension take hard landings?

Miatas are a seperate classing from mk3's in auto-x and thankfully so. IMO, a class prepped Mk3 would not be able to beat a similarly prepped Miata at auto-x on equivalalent tires. As an example, Miatas have dominated their classes for years, where Camaros and Mustangs take the mk3's class. The PAX is higher (less correction) for the Miata.

 

[GeneStarWindGSW]

Hmmmm