Cams for a 500 hp MK3 Turbo

[JCFsupraman]

I am almost finished with modding the car and the finishing touch will be cams and maybe adjustable cam gears. The pretty blue Fidanza ones. :icon_evil
http://www.jscspeed.com/mk3/engine/fidanza_camgearmk3.htm
http://www.suprastore.com/ficamge19tos.html
or the TMS blues
http://www.suprastore.com/tms19tosumk3.html
with a clear Lexan timing cover of course :love:
http://www.suprastore.com/aticlletico7.html

Any one that has personal experience with Kamakazee Kams, Crower Cams Stage 2, Web Cams (not the camera either) or just putting in an NA camshaft on the input side please feel free to chime in... how much of a HP gain did you get and was it the right thing to do or would you do it over with another brand. I wasn't really planning to do valve, pistons, valve train etc..

Three years ago when I asked this question my mods weren't as intense or as plentiful. Back then Shaeff said not to bother with the NA input cams and listed some other threads to support his claim, mrnickeleye heard good things about the NA's & IJ said as a cheap trial improvement couldn't hurt. And I can snag an NA input side camshaft off my mechanic from one of his 4 parts cars 2 of which are NA's.

89SupraTurbo said the BC stage 2's would be his recommendation but at $725 USD for the cams and $353 for the springs and retainers - $1,078 USD seems pricey.
http://www.briancrower.com/makes/toyota/7mgte.shtml

IJ also mentioned Wadecams that he is running but I can't seem to find.

And yaitsme suggested the Webcams (and I don't mean the camera) which at $810 USD is a little better but would I need anything else? They don't list anything on their page.
http://www.webcaminc.net/index_blank.html?pages/vehicle_search.html

KamaKazee is closest to me although they are still 4 hours away. $400 - $1800+ CDN depending on how much horse they feel i can handle.
http://www.tedcomponents.com/7mgte.htm

I've heard guys say that upgrading cams may cause you to fail emissions but I also was told that with a proper tune it won't. Well oh wise ones the floor is yours. What would you do to finish off the Blue Beast or what did you do with yours. Thank you in advance for your words and time.

 

[tlo86]

i think N/A was more of a torque thing... less hp

 

[gofastgeorge]

I only use TODA or HKS after having been stung with a set of BCs........
There are pages of posts about the short comings crower Jr's cams.
I have always had good luck with the JDM cams.
HKS no loner makes them, but a set will pop up now & then.
TODA 7M cams are only sold in Japan, so you either have to shop there,
or wait for a used set to surface over here.

I also am a firm believer in TODA's inner shim kit (buckets, retainers, springs, shims)
They take standard cycle 9.5-10mm diameter shims, and the whole set is super light.
Plus, with the inner shim set-up, there is no way a big cam lobe can pluck a shim off the top of the bucket.

 

[HommerSimpson]

Anyone ever have a 7m cam reground ?

 

[Clint]

jesus, http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86550 jump into the group buy , punch a baby and be done with it

 

[JCFsupraman]

tlo86 - okay thanks pretty much what my mechanic was saying but good to hear it from someone else.

go fastgeorge - yeah i luv the quality of HKS parts. I know they don't make em anymore but would love to pick up a set. I'll check out Toda.

Clint thanks man i didn't even know Eric had that on and I was emailing with him a few weeks ago talking about the big Toronto meet next weekend. I sent him an email so i'm sure he'll get back to me with recommendations and what i need to do it up right.

 

[hvyman]

good luck finding toda or hks cams for the 7m.

check out rhdjapan.com if you havent already. they have a toda valvetrain kit right now but it has no cams.

 

[tsupranami]

good luck finding toda or hks cams for the 7m.

check out rhdjapan.com if you havent already. they have a toda valvetrain kit right now but it has no cams.

Yep. Toda and HKS cams are all but extinct. I'm running BC's, but haven't had them very long, so can't comment on durability.

They do flow better in upper rpms, but lose a little tq down low. And some folks don't like the lumpy idle, plus they mess with the ecu and afr at idle, so extra tuning is required.

 

[Clint]

Clint thanks man i didn't even know Eric had that on and I was emailing with him a few weeks ago talking about the big Toronto meet next weekend. I sent him an email so i'm sure he'll get back to me with recommendations and what i need to do it up right.

No problem bro

 

[JCFsupraman]

Yep. Toda and HKS cams are all but extinct. I'm running BC's, but haven't had them very long, so can't comment on durability.

They do flow better in upper rpms, but lose a little tq down low. And some folks don't like the lumpy idle, plus they mess with the ecu and afr at idle, so extra tuning is required.

Yep I heard the same about the 272 so i was told to get the 264 which do you have?

 

[JCFsupraman]

good luck finding toda or hks cams for the 7m.

check out rhdjapan.com if you havent already. they have a toda valvetrain kit right now but it has no cams.

yeppers saw it. but $1600 + cdn and i'm sure canada post will ding us with pst gst handling and what not so thats just ridiculously expensive. And then add in $700 for cams. no thanks.

 

[gofastgeorge]

good luck finding toda or hks cams for the 7m.

check out rhdjapan.com if you havent already. they have a toda valvetrain kit right now but it has no cams.

If Tim @ rhdjapan can get the inner shim set, then he can get the cams.
By the way, there is a set of both on eBay right now.

 

[JCFsupraman]

George you are da man. Well they aren't on ebay no more. Thanks
So do I need anything else with them for my car. You see my mods. What about adjustable cam gears? or just keep the stock cam gears for now.

 

[Zazzn]

I only use TODA or HKS after having been stung with a set of BCs........
There are pages of posts about the short comings crower Jr's cams.
I have always had good luck with the JDM cams.
HKS no loner makes them, but a set will pop up now & then.
TODA 7M cams are only sold in Japan, so you either have to shop there,
or wait for a used set to surface over here.

I also am a firm believer in TODA's inner shim kit (buckets, retainers, springs, shims)
They take standard cycle 9.5-10mm diameter shims, and the whole set is super light.
Plus, with the inner shim set-up, there is no way a big cam lobe can pluck a shim off the top of the bucket.

How where you burned by BC? I heard 1 or 2 stories with BC cams with problems but since I've been selling selling them I've had 2 people have problems 1 of them with the actual cams the other was just mis-shipped this is out of about 80 sets of cams that I've sold in the last 2 years.

i emailed you james.

 

[hvyman]

^ really. i heard that they had problems with the exhaust side not sitting right and leaking or was this by shit luck or had the problem been resolved?

gofastgeogre: if you call them do they have more than they do on the website? not looking since im broke but just wondering for future reference.

 

[boostin300]

The problem with those cams were CROWER cams, not BC cams. Crower and BC broke up as Crower only wanted to make domestic cams and BC stayed in the import market. Afaik BC never screwed up. Although I wouldnt buy either personally, HKS is a lot better quality anyway. They come up every now and then.

As far as cam gears, the only reason people get the adjustable ones is to "degree" the cams when they first put them in. In all honesty it doesn't matter for crap, its less than 10 crank horsepower. Unless your 1000+ hp it doesn't really matter. And it's pretty much impossible to do yourself. Really it is. You do not adjust timing with adjustable cam gears. The way they work is you get timing matched up perfectly then you degree the cams. So no, you don't need them. They're mostly for show or lighter weight or for extreme tuners.

 

[Zazzn]

I don't see how you say better quality for HKS? It's made in taiwan out of what material?

BC cam is made form Billet material it's listed right on his website, made in the USA...

If there where ever problems I just need to talk to him and it would be fixed... HPF did a huge group buy on the 7m cams, and I heard of 1 person having problems all the rest where fine... I wouldn't buy in to this hoop la crap that regurgitate.

I personally made 647WHP on my 2jz with BC 264 cams @ 24 psi on a 67DDB. Most mk4 guys are only hitting 600 HP at 28 PSI... Goes to show I'm 4 PSI less and 50 hp ahead! I can only imagin at 28 PSI i'd be closer to 700 WHP.

So do they work hell's yes... I wouldn't personally run them if they where shit or I didn't trust them.

Finally, Good luck getting HKS or JUN or who ever, they are 1000$ a piece. usually, vs the GB price of 600 that I have going on right now. Really BC is THE ONLY choice if you are 7m. Unless you like blowing money on a name brand which doesn't even have dyno proof to back it up against still. (after all this time)

I'm not saying HKS is shit, I'm saying I wouldn't comment on quality if you havn't a clue where they are made or if you have never seen the two side by side.

I've had HKS, Crower, and BC cams

Crower did have some mistakes with the exhaust cam leaking... That foolishness was resolved when I started getting everything from BC. I stopped dealing with Crower completely when Brian made BC and I've had a relationship with him ever since.

How do I have this relationship?

Well I was the one that forked out and got Crower (brian @ crower at the time) to make 1jz cams for me, I did about 3 sets and tested them all out... Out of my pocket 600$ a set plus shipping taxes, and duty charges. Then I had to shim them and dyno and test them....
We found the best combo which is how 1jz was all developed and why they make so much damn power. He then split form Crower and opened BC as said above

HPF did a GB for 7m, and I sent my 1jz cams that worked best back to him and he made the 1jz cams for the masses due to my originals.

I should also mention that during the testing of the 272 1jz cams I ended up spitting and shim and killing that engine (all for the community) because it had too much lift .406 which gave huge power but needs shimless buckets

 

[gofastgeorge]

How where you burned by BC? I heard 1 or 2 stories with BC cams with problems but since I've been selling selling them I've had 2 people have problems 1 of them with the actual cams the other was just mis-shipped this is out of about 80 sets of cams that I've sold in the last 2 years.

i emailed you james.

The cam journal diameters were all over the place, just like other people had.
One was so big, that when the bearing cap was tightened down, the cam locked.
The oil grove on my intake cam was Way Too Wide, leaving very little bearing surface.

When I called them (BC), they copped an attitude right off the bat,
and said "If you don't like them, send them back".
I did.........

And if people read through the thread that was closed, as soon as these problems popped up, you will see that it isn't a isolated instance.

By the way, the set I got from BC were cast, not billet.
I would like to see a billet cam.......

HKS cams are cast by them, not in taiwan.
They have one of the largest casting facilities in Japan.
After all, their parrent company is SIGMA automotive.
The name HKS is made up from the first letters of Hasegawa - Kitagawa - Sigma.
Hasegawa, and Kitagawa are the 2 guys who moved SIGMA into the performance market.

 

[gofastgeorge]

^ really. i heard that they had problems with the exhaust side not sitting right and leaking or was this by shit luck or had the problem been resolved?

gofastgeogre: if you call them do they have more than they do on the website? not looking since im broke but just wondering for future reference.

Don't know, I have only ever e-mailed them over the years......
But they are willing to go out and purchase stuff, as that is mostly what they do.
(act like a forwarding agent)
I don't think they actually stock stuff, it's all just a on-line store front.

Or you could sign up with Rinky, they are a forwarding company for anything Japan, then you could buy directly through them.
They charge a lot, but the stuff being half a world away,
and totally different, hard to translate language, it's about right.

But RHD is strictly automotive, so I would think you would get better service from them.

 

[boostin300]

I don't see how you say better quality for HKS? It's made in taiwan out of what material?

BC cam is made form Billet material it's listed right on his website, made in the USA...

If there where ever problems I just need to talk to him and it would be fixed... HPF did a huge group buy on the 7m cams, and I heard of 1 person having problems all the rest where fine... I wouldn't buy in to this hoop la crap that regurgitate.

I personally made 647WHP on my 2jz with BC 264 cams @ 24 psi on a 67DDB. Most mk4 guys are only hitting 600 HP at 28 PSI... Goes to show I'm 4 PSI less and 50 hp ahead! I can only imagin at 28 PSI i'd be closer to 700 WHP.

So do they work hell's yes... I wouldn't personally run them if they where shit or I didn't trust them.

Finally, Good luck getting HKS or JUN or who ever, they are 1000$ a piece. usually, vs the GB price of 600 that I have going on right now. Really BC is THE ONLY choice if you are 7m. Unless you like blowing money on a name brand which doesn't even have dyno proof to back it up against still. (after all this time)

I'm not saying HKS is shit, I'm saying I wouldn't comment on quality if you havn't a clue where they are made or if you have never seen the two side by side.

I've had HKS, Crower, and BC cams

Crower did have some mistakes with the exhaust cam leaking... That foolishness was resolved when I started getting everything from BC. I stopped dealing with Crower completely when Brian made BC and I've had a relationship with him ever since.

How do I have this relationship?

Well I was the one that forked out and got Crower (brian @ crower at the time) to make 1jz cams for me, I did about 3 sets and tested them all out... Out of my pocket 600$ a set plus shipping taxes, and duty charges. Then I had to shim them and dyno and test them....
We found the best combo which is how 1jz was all developed and why they make so much damn power. He then split form Crower and opened BC as said above

HPF did a GB for 7m, and I sent my 1jz cams that worked best back to him and he made the 1jz cams for the masses due to my originals.

I should also mention that during the testing of the 272 1jz cams I ended up spitting and shim and killing that engine (all for the community) because it had too much lift .406 which gave huge power but needs shimless buckets

I've never run BC cams but a friend of mine that I helped when he built his MKIV never had a single problem with his HKS cams and he's boosted well over 30lbs on C16 netting 800whp (no i dont have vids/dyno sheet blah blah but I assure you Im not BSing)

The BC cams WILL net you more power than HKS, somtimes considerably more depending on your setup. But, I have never heard of anyone having ANY problems whatsoever on HKS cams as long as they were installed right and nothing was wrong with the valvetrain or timing to mess them up. I HAVE heard of multiple people having problems with the BC cams (more when BC was with Crower, including the ordeal with them not sending out cams with the front seal on at all, then f***ing around with the customer = ridiculous). HKS CAMS are NOT MADE IN TAIWAN, where did you get that from? SOME of their products are, but either way they still have to pass HKS's quality checks and all that. HKS stuff is generally very high quality and they've been in the market longer than pretty much every tuner company has been ever. *Some* of the brand new BC cams ARE regrounds, meaning they are NOT billet, they're just stock cams machined to their own spec. I said SOME. HKS cams are ALL ALWAYS brand new nickel-something metal and hold up extremely well. They DO NOT do regrounds. I don't know if they're billet or not, but however they're done they hold up very well. They are more conservative than the BC or GSC cams though, but they won't give you any trouble. Everything I'm talking about is on 2jz's, I've never looked in to how hard it is to find HKS cams for 7m's or how well they work with the 7m. I do know that HKS is very good quality for most applications.

"I don't know if you're associated with BC but from your post it sounds like you ARE Brian Crower.. lmao" - I typed that before I read the end of your post. LOL

OP: You will make more power, but seriously some of the horror stories from some of the 2jz guys are just nuts.. BC customer service might be better at this point, but before it was total bull to anyone who wanted a return or exchange or generally anything from Crower. I seriously would NOT recommend buying BC to ANYONE. I have heard sooo many stories of sooo many people having sooo many problems with Crower *AND* BC cams.. it truly is one of those "you get what you pay for" situations. If you want to cheap out and buy BC, go for it. If you want to wait until you can find HKS cams for a greater price, you will be MUCH better off. Believe me on that.. do a search on Supraforums and you'll find piles and piles of BS about BC and Crower. The guy who posted above about BC WORKS FOR BC. His opinion is biased.. I'm not saying BC is junk but seriously, too many people have blown motors or other crazy problems with those cams. Do some research before you buy anything.

OP: I do know BC is much better than BC's dad was, he sucked dick at customer service. Go for it but look into other companies before you do buy them as each motor is different and will work better with one company over the other. Check out GSC, JUN, HKS, there's more but I cant think of any right now.

BTW OP, do not just throw in a new set of cams. There's a lot you should do to your valvetrain before you just drop in cams, especially more aggressive ones. And no need on those adjustable cam gears, its well over $250 for a decent set and you don't need them. Just get the valvetrain and cams installed right and you're set.