Calculators & Math - FML

[Setheroo]

FML - Fuck My Life

So ever since the 8th grade or so, me and every other student has learned how to operate the wonderful TI-83. You can practically plan a lunar landing with that calculator if you wanted to, and knowing how to work the thing is a powerful tool.

Unfortunately it is not a tool that you can use in my math class in college. (Despite the fact that you can use one on say... the ACT). Now, I don't know about you, but it really seems like many people do not know how to do math longhand anymore. This is the category that I fall under... and it seems that my test grades in my ALGEBRA class are suffering from it.

That's right, simple algebra is stumping me. Not because of its difficulty, but because of the simple fact that things like graphing are things that I would do on a calculator for its ease.

Really I don't wish to learn how to do most of these operations the manual way, I have always used a calculator on everything.

I had a chemistry teacher that had us learn a new function on the TI-83 everyday in class. This way we would know how to use it to work our way through problems. If you knew how to use that thing to its fullest extent I don't think there is many problems that you couldn't solve.

So this is what I wanna know... are there any of you on here that are like me? Can do math with the calculator but if you took it away you wouldn't be able to do more advanced things? Or do you believe that there really is an importance on knowing how to do math the longhand way?

Just to make things clear I can do most basic operations without a calculator, it isn't like I am a dummy - I am just really pinpointing graphing, inequalities, square roots - those things.

 

[rtrdpenguin]

Actually you can get a good general idea of graphs just by remember simple rules like transformations. Flips and shifts left and right and all that. You can just remember the basic graph of each type of function and you'll be able to tell what it looks like by remembering how to shift and flip the graphs

I've always tried not to use the calculator unless I had to, and it's paying off now that my Calc 2 class is calculatorless.

 

[Keros]

Sissy.

I wrote my grade 11 final exam without any calculator... I forgot it at home, no time to get one, and they wouldn't give me one.

Still passed, but took two hours longer than any one else.

 

[americanjebus]

get on the boat man, calculators have been banned from all my math classes since pre calc. Logic behind that, if you cant do it longhand then your just not going to understand the application of the theory. Anyone can read a manual.

i'm at the point where i really dont know how do to half the shit i've covered between precalc to calc 3 to lin. algebra on a calculator. Its all been longhand, and to be honest, its better that way.

 

[mkiiSupraMan18]

Whoa whoa whoa..... hold the phone...

Back in my day me and a few buddies would take turns typing our notes into our calcs (free online program writing thing made it uber easy) and 'acing' our tests (missing a few so it wasn't obvious). Our Alg/Calc teacher would let us 'look over tests' the day before the test and we could start working on them if we wanted to... so what do we do? do a few easy problem and go to town punching in as many questions as we could (some of us start from the front, some of us from the back)... same deal.

THAT is why you can't use them.

Also, they had some pretty sweet games that wasted a TON of time...

*edit*
We used clear pens for Spanish tests...

 

[Clip]

im the same way seth. couldnt use a calculator since grade 11 precal, in my soph year of engineering. rough but doable.

what i really hate is my inability to perform basic math functions quickly, and i'm always a little slow in the math learning dept. my friends help pull me along though

 

[MK3Brent]

At my school, the rules apply depending on who your professor is.

For the interest of time and efficiency, you're allowed most basic 4-function calculators for exams.

In the real world in engineering, it's all about speed... I actually wear a 4-function calculator watch to do volume calculations/corrections for injection molding on the floor, next to the machine.

Yeah, it's important to know concepts so when you see a number... it makes sense and isn't ridiculous.

 

[GrimJack]

When I was in school, the most advanced feature on calculators was Add to Memory.

 

[Setheroo]

Now okay I realize that there are perks to knowing how to call things out in math without a calculator, and I know why it is good to be able to do those things without a calculator - but as Brent had said - in the real world, it is all about speed. Not only speed, but I would extend to say precision as well. Humans can make errors - and calculators aren't 100% perfect either - but for most cases if what you input is correct than the output will likely be correct as well.

In all of the math classes I have ever had - I was basically lied to - they fed me the rhetoric that I would always be able to use the calculator - that was what it was there for - to be utilized.

I know that you can cheat with a TI-83, anyone with half a brain could do it. But tests are not everything in a math class you know - there are homework assignments, and quiz's that account for your final grade. Not to mention the other sole fact that the only thing you are really cheating is yourself when you decide to cheat on everything. If I were an instructor - the only thing that someone would really be penalized for is plagiarism, that takes some real nerve.

I pretty much have to forget about everything that I have been taught, and start all over again. With the help of calculators I have been able to do lots of awesome things with the use of math. I've learned to use math for applications way more than I ever had for the purpose of book work, and that seems to be my real problem.

 

[suprarx7nut]

Graphing calculators are wonderful for doing very many things. Most notably, graphing huge equations and calculating long, drawn out expressions.

However, you should really know how to do anything that the calculator is doing.

IMO, if you can't do it by hand, you don't know how to do it at all. If you need the calculator to do it, then you don't know the process. To trust anything you do on a computer, calculator etc.. you MUST be able to verify it by hand.

If engineering classes at CU have taught me anything it's these principals.

 

[annoyingrob]

I did most of my high-school in Ontario, where they never allowed us to use ANY calculators. Everything was hand sketched, and all that. You really absorbed what was being taught, rather than just typing some equations into a calculator. Then I moved back to Alberta, and finished high school. They were all in to the graphing calculators. It was just too easy. That continued into university where we could use graphing calculators for everything as well. They were really really helpful when you had to deal with huge equations of complex numbers.

Then I left he university, and came back two years later. The engineering department had banned the use of any calculator with more than a basic "remember a number" memory function, graphical displays, etc. I thought it was quite funny how everyone was panicking, and protesting that they NEEDED them. I seem to get along just fine without my graphing calculator.

IMO, schools should not allow students to even start using them. They're just a crutch that people end up relying on for everything.

 

[RiyadYar]

At my school, the rules apply depending on who your professor is.

For the interest of time and efficiency, you're allowed most basic 4-function calculators for exams.

In the real world in engineering, it's all about speed... I actually wear a 4-function calculator watch to do volume calculations/corrections for injection molding on the floor, next to the machine.

Yeah, it's important to know concepts so when you see a number... it makes sense and isn't ridiculous.

lol my father is an engineer and ever since i can remember he always wore that exact watch he loves it

 

[flight doc89]

i actually preferred my old school Ti-25X Solar over the Ti-83. sure, graphing was cool, but that little calculator was simple, easy to use, and badass

 

[Setheroo]

I admit that the calculator has become a crutch for me. But is it ever something that we would be without in the future? I can see some scenarios where you wouldn't have one available to you, but in most cases that isn't really the case.

 

[MK3Brent]

Again, it goes back to understanding what you're doing, how it works, and why... So that when you get a result, it is within tolerance.

If you have intimate knowledge of functions and formulation, your outputs will make sense to you... rather than plugging numbers and recording numbers.

We have spreadsheets that organize and automate some basic data entry, but real-time on the floor changes need to be made by an engineer who is trained and skilled at being able to realize what changes are being made and why.

So by knowing how to do these things w/o any kind of assistance is a strength, and should be exercised.

Do I rely on calculators?
You better believe it... My problem is I don't trust my instincts, even-though they're usually correct.

Use calculators as work checkers.

 

[Doward]

Yeah, if there's a bug in the calculator, you better recognize it when it pops up

Seriously, being able to do it by hand shows that you KNOW what the hell you are doing.

Hell, I could never afford a calculator - I went all the way to Calc 3 without ever even touching one. I actually got points DOCKED because I had to hand-graph everything, and they weren't 'exact' enough for the bitch. :3d_frown:

 

[MK3Brent]

It's really going to depend on where you end up working and what you're doing.
You'll get so used to the same basic 4-6 formulas, to the point you're just substituting.

I do mostly design lately, where all calculations are done in company provided software.
TG (thermogravimetry) analysis is all automated too... so you're not really being forced to show some complicated proofs/graphs.




(edit one more thing)

Math is all about being able to problem solve... if you're given the problem "Solve this w/o a calculator.." then you're at the heart of Mathematics.

 

[MKIIINA]

my college classes were a mixed bag, some let you go to town with whatever hardware you could find (ti-89 was my weapon of choice for most classes). i could understand it for some classes with restrictions as they are ment to be building blocks for future classes (pre-calc -> calc for business applications) but now in the real world i need to be able to do math quickly and graph even quicker so i use.... wait for it.... a computer! mostly the simple 4 function standard MS calculator that is built in (how they didnt mess that up is beyond me sometimes) but for double decline curves for oil/gas well production the ti-89 is there by my side for number crunching..

i still hate math btw

 

[MK3Brent]

We should start an Engineer's Daily Math thread... and we all post what REAL WORLD math we get to use, so others get an idea what's to be expected.

 

[benchwarmer]

I'm with most of the others in this thread: If you don't know how to do it by hand, then you don't know how to do it at all. As has been pointed out, any high school student knows how to use a calculator. Engineers need to know what the math means, not just how to get an answer.