Brian Crower Stage 2 cams RPM operating range?

amichie

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Apr 13, 2006
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sYDNEy
AJ'S 88NA said:
ARP bolts come with lube to install them with and torque specs.
Read up on the other threads on here, there's plenty, for tips and do's and don'ts.

Amichie: By moving the pin on the stock gears wouldn't that be more than 3 deg.? It sure looks like it would be. Can you just off set the timing belt to get the 3 deg? It looks like that dimension would be less. I haven't counted the teeth on the gears to see how many degrees it would be.

Get head studs. Forget head bolts.

The factory cam wheel is a vernier wheel.:icon_bigg

The cam is varied either by 3 or 4.5 cam degrees by moving the sprocket dowel pin by one position. It works on exactly the same principle as an old fashioned vernier scale and these wheels are often called vernier cam wheels.

This method is as old as the hills. If you have a different number of equally spaced cam wheel positions to the number of teeth on the gear then each cam wheel position will have a slight misalignment. In this case the cam wheel has 3 holes but they are spaced as though there are 5 equally spaced holes. The gear has 48 teeth. If you divide 48 by 5 you get 9.6. So when you move the cam wheel by 1 postion you change it by 9.6 teeth. To then make the belt fit you have to either advance the wheel by 0.4 teeth and go to 10 or retard by 0.6 and go back to 9.


0.4/48 times 360 degrees = 3 degrees.

0.6/48 times 360 degrees = 4.5 degrees.

If you just move the cam on the belt by one tooth, one tooth equals 7.5 cam degrees or 15 crank degrees.

Obviuosly if you change the drive pin hole then the original timing mark is no longer valid and you will have to make new marks on the cam wheel. Fortunately this is dead easy. If you use the spoke as a coarse marker there will be two positions that are close to having the spoke vertical. The one with the spoke pointing leaning 1 o'clock corresponds to cam advance.
If the spoke is leaning towards 11 o'clock corresponds to cam retard.

Good luck

Below is a direct copy and paste from the cressida forum. Since you won't be able to see it unless you sign up I just copied and pasted from there.

Original author was spooled 7mgte.

7M's has 9 different setup of cam timing that can be achieved by playing with cam holes, and camgear holes.

Cam, as the camgear, has 3 different holes, for 3 different timing setup.

But in reality, I do think you can only have 5 setups, since -3 with +3 will give a 0 (stock configuration)

-3 cam with stock gear will give -3 timing. -3 cam with -3 gear will give -6 timing. You still following me?

Heres some pictures of the 9 different setups that dans be done (9 setups, not 9 timings!)

camholestock.jpg


Here, we can see 3 different cam holes, the middle, as for the camgear, is the stock 7M setup



camholestockwithcamgearstock.jpg


This is the stock setup, notice the timing marks wich we will use to see the differences that will be provided with following setups. We will call this setup : 0



camholestockwithcamgear-3.jpg


This is the stock cam hole with timing gear reversed of 3 degrees wich by the timing mark should provide a -3 timing setup.

we can call this setup : -3

camholestockwithcamgear+3.jpg


Here we can see a nice difference between the -3 and +3 positions, telling you that I'm not takin a bunch of pictures for nothing! :eek: :p

We can call this setup : +3


camhole-3.jpg


This is camhole position -3 I made grove on cover and holes to try to make them perfect match, not 100% perfect but enough so we can see differences in following pictures.



camhole-3withcamgearstock.jpg


Since this is a -3 camhole with a 0 cam gear, it should give the same as the stock camhole with -3 camgear, so we can also call this setup : -3


camhole-3withcamgear-3.jpg


Camhole-3 with camgear -3, we should notice a big difference now between stock setup with the timing marks. We can call this setup : -6 since we've got "-3" + "-3"



camhole-3withcamgear+3.jpg


here we have -3 camhole with +3 cam gear, so it should also gives a setup called : 0



camhole+3.jpg


Camhole at position +3



camhole+3withcamgearstock.jpg


+3 with 0 will give a setup called : +3




camhole+3withcamgear-3.jpg


+3 with -3 will give a setup called : 0


camhole+3withcamgear+3.jpg


and finally, both holes on +3 wich are gonna give a +6 setup.



This is pretty basic and "home made" so pictures may not give a clear view of REAL result. If I am wrong in any part of this guide or my writings are not clear or full of ponctuation errors, please notice me so I can edit.

This is only for consultation and results stated in this guide are not confirmed by toyota or TRSM. for the moment.

Enjoy!
 
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chris89

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What's wrong with head bolts? I don't understand how a head stud would work anyway...? Bolts seem alot easier. How are studs installed?
 

IJ.

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Boy does someone have it WRONG above.......

There are 3 holes in eac cam and 3 in each stock pully.

pin in the middle holes is 0

pin in the left holes is x degrees one way

pin in right holes is x degrees the other.

(hint the holes are offset so the timing mark on the pully stays straight up)
 

cuel

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Jan 8, 2007
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Hmmm..... I'm kind of confused by the above pics. Is he actually moving the cams so that the pin holes to the right or left are pointing up, or just moving the pins and gears around with the center cam hole pointing up(or close)?
 

chris89

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What's wrong with head bolts? I don't understand how a head stud would work anyway...? Bolts seem alot easier. How are studs installed?
 

BLACKCAT

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May 24, 2007
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The more I look at those pictures the more I am confused with his logic.
As the engine & cams turn clockwise then moving the pin to the left of centre, for both the cam & wheel, would be advancing the cam & not retarding it.
 

amichie

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chris89 said:
What's wrong with head bolts? I don't understand how a head stud would work anyway...? Bolts seem alot easier. How are studs installed?


You get more clamping force and less twisting force for the same torque setting when using studs rather than bolts. Mostly due to the condition of the thread in the block.
 

amichie

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BLACKCAT said:
The more I look at those pictures the more I am confused with his logic.
As the engine & cams turn clockwise then moving the pin to the left of centre, for both the cam & wheel, would be advancing the cam & not retarding it.

That is correct. He has got his advance and retard back to front.
 

amichie

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Apr 13, 2006
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IJ. said:
Boy does someone have it WRONG above.......

There are 3 holes in eac cam and 3 in each stock pully.

pin in the middle holes is 0

pin in the left holes is x degrees one way

pin in right holes is x degrees the other.

(hint the holes are offset so the timing mark on the pully stays straight up)


The only thing wrong is the fact he got his retard advance the wrong way around (as pointed out by Blackcat). The holes are equally spaced. Imagine a 5 spoke mag wheel fitted to a four stud hub. If the wheel is removed with one spoke pointing straight up and then refitted and rotated around one position on the studs then the spoke will no longer be pointing straight up.
 

chris89

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do Brian crower cams come with instructions on how to set them up correctly to get it running right? Basically from what you've guy's said is that all i need to do is set both the intake and exhaust cams 3+ degrees advanced and it should run fine... But what if it doesn't? Oh and you put the engine in time just you would with the stock cams, correct? (set the crank to 0, set both cams to 0 and put the belt on)
 

IJ.

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amichie said:
The only thing wrong is the fact he got his retard advance the wrong way around (as pointed out by Blackcat). The holes are equally spaced. Imagine a 5 spoke mag wheel fitted to a four stud hub. If the wheel is removed with one spoke pointing straight up and then refitted and rotated around one position on the studs then the spoke will no longer be pointing straight up.
The holes work as pairs.

hole 1 in Cam and pully = x

hole 2 in cam and pully = xx

hole 3 in cam and pully = xxx

I have NFI what turning the Pully onto hole 1 pully and hole 2 cam yields.
 

chris89

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Actually after learning a hell of a lot about engines I switched to an H22, but want another supra. Engine power has to do with lift, duration, timing the mechanical parts by a degree wheel. To time perfectly at what degree does the valve begin to open at the precise moment the piston just begins to move down from tdc. That way your utilizing 100% of the combustion chamber. Interference fit engines are able to utilize more combustion chamber volume than a none interference fit like the 7m supra engines among others. So degreeing is essential to optimizing peak power output on stock or modded cams. With greater lift and duration on a properly degreed 7m, on top of the ignition timing being precisely at the same mark as the mechanical meaning spark at the precise moment the piston just begins to move down from tdc. That means that everything will be 110% on par to produce absolute peak power in every single rpm spectrum and especially up top. A lot of the supra's big end and power band was lacking from advancing it all out which utilized less combustion chamber but created a zippier city casual driving keep up with traffic like performance. Once you degree it and time it according to the degreeing it'll be more clacky in thumping like power since each cylinder will be making a great deal more power. Wide open is way way stronger especially way way up top though the rod caps want to come loose. If we could balance out the out-of-balance operation above 4,000rpm then we could have a long lasting engine. One day I will get another Supra we can all be assured of that.