Brake question

mk3forme

New Member
Apr 5, 2005
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Lexington KY
Okk pro's here it is. My brakes have been fine up until a couple months back when I changed to braided brakes lines. Also changed rotors and pads. Ever since I have done this, my brake pressure is normal when stopping. But when I sit stopped I and hold pressure like normal, all of sudden the car rolls and you have to push the pedal down harder to apply the brakes again. Its like the original stopping pressure is bleeding off and you have to apply more pressure than originally. The pedal doesnt go all the way to the floor but it will go down a little bit farther to engage the brakes again. Im thinking brake booster. I dont think its air in the lines as I have bleed the brakes 5 times or more. Any ideas before I start changing parts??
 

mk3forme

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Apr 5, 2005
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Lexington KY
Thanks John I will check the travel. I also noticed that the TSRM states if the resevoir has become empty to bleed the master cylinder and then bleed the lines. My resevoir was empty for a week or more. I did not bleed the master cylinder just the system as a whole. I wouldnt think that would make a difference would it. I figured if you bleed the whole system than air would be forced out of the master as well? Also I figured if there were air in the lines than it would have just a spongy feeling and not the loss in pressure im incountering. Which leads me to believe that p5150 might be on to something as well.
 

ZoomZoomZoom

On the road again..
Dec 9, 2007
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Its the master cylinder. Replaced mine today. But you'll have to order one, because I hunted down the last one in town :icon_bigg

And to answer your next question, $102 total, $40 back on the core from CarQuest. Came with the bleeder kit. Napa didn't carry it at all.

The reservoir was nasty. Couldn't find any real tips on SM for cleaning it out. I did get a toothbrush in there with some isopropyl alcohol. Scared to use any type of cleaners. Put it back on, bled the MC itself, didn't have to do the brake lines. Noticed a huge difference in braking response. Now I'm wondering if I should've replaced the booster while the MC was off.
 

IJ.

Grumpy Old Man
Mar 30, 2005
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I come from a land down under
Do a pedal height retention test

Motor off pump the pedal a few times to empty the booster

hold force on the pedal and sit like that for 5 minutes and observe the pedal's reaction.

If it begins sinking towards the floor it's new Master time.
 

Kckazdude

Active Member
Mar 16, 2007
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ZoomZoomZoom;988291 said:
Napa didn't carry it at all.

Hmmm...I found a part # as 39615 being a new MC from NAPA. Might be a special order but can be had. The other odd thing I notice is that NAPA catalog shows a difference between ABS and non ABS but the TEPC doesnt.
 

drjonez

Supramania Contributor
Mar 31, 2005
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the motor city
www.4cefed.com
mk3forme;985082 said:
Thanks John I will check the travel. I also noticed that the TSRM states if the resevoir has become empty to bleed the master cylinder and then bleed the lines. My resevoir was empty for a week or more. I did not bleed the master cylinder just the system as a whole. I wouldnt think that would make a difference would it...

while you may not think it will make a difference, it does. if the master goes empty, you have to bleed it.....THEN bleed the air out of the lines. if you run the master empty whilst bleeding the lines, rebleed the master.

if you have an ABS car this tends to get even more complex...i've seen a few instances where air gets trapped in the actuator and it's a nightmare to get it out.
 

mk3forme

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Apr 5, 2005
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Lexington KY
Thanks for all the replies guys. I glad to see I have some real pros in here giving me advice. IJ you are correct once again. Go figure! lol Tracy I was going to call you yesterday but got working on other things and it was late. I tried bleeding the master after I found a bleed kit at O-reillys. I didnt think that would work as I never could get to the point where there were no more bubbles. I would pump and pump with nothing, and then out of no where more bubbles. Put it back together, bleed the lines, and it drove well at first. But down the street from my house the symptoms returned. And on the hill at my house was even more obvious. oh and thanks for taking the last one in town. Did Hightech do yours or did you?? Thanks again everyone for all the advice!!!
 

ZoomZoomZoom

On the road again..
Dec 9, 2007
443
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KY
mk3forme;988553 said:
Thanks for all the replies guys. I glad to see I have some real pros in here giving me advice. IJ you are correct once again. Go figure! lol Tracy I was going to call you yesterday but got working on other things and it was late. I tried bleeding the master after I found a bleed kit at O-reillys. I didnt think that would work as I never could get to the point where there were no more bubbles. I would pump and pump with nothing, and then out of no where more bubbles. Put it back together, bleed the lines, and it drove well at first. But down the street from my house the symptoms returned. And on the hill at my house was even more obvious. oh and thanks for taking the last one in town. Did Hightech do yours or did you?? Thanks again everyone for all the advice!!!

So did you need a new booster too?

My Dad and I put in the rebuilt MC. Hi-Tech guys stayed late Friday trying to bleed the lines, not totally convinced it was a bad MC. Had lots of fun driving it home, it was bad. Dad rode with me for 5 mins, and explained to me that one of the MC pistons was allowing fluid to escape, causing the car to drift forward while sitting at a stoplight. In a sense, I was losing half my brakes. Tap the brakes, the pistons reset, and I had full stopping power again. But whats weird is that same thing happened after you put the new rotors and pads on my car. But it only happened twice.

The bleed kit that came with my rebuild was a piece of crap. It was threaded wrong, so air would sneak in during the bench bleed. We had to really tighten one down to get it to stop sucking air into the MC.

The Napa guy probably had the wrong car model. I think the conversation went something like this:

"I need a brake MC for a 90 toyota supra"
"What size engine?"
"There's only one size engine, its a turbo"
"ABS?"
"Yes"
"What model was that, Tercel?"
"NO, s-u-p-e-r-A"


Turbo tercel ?
 

mk3forme

New Member
Apr 5, 2005
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Yes Tracy your symptoms are the same as mine. I thought the same thing about the fluid escaping and causing me to lose pressure. I was pretty sure that was it, but wanted to bleed the MC first to make sure before dumping money on a new one. Kinda wierd that with both of our cars this happens to after the same oil pan problem and replacing brake lines while we have the front end out. Im glad you fixed yours, but now I have to get to mine.

I was to busy this weekend pimping my accord. :naughty: I will have to send you pics since you never come to visit.:biglaugh:
 

ZoomZoomZoom

On the road again..
Dec 9, 2007
443
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KY
mk3forme;989189 said:
Yes Tracy your symptoms are the same as mine. I thought the same thing about the fluid escaping and causing me to lose pressure. I was pretty sure that was it, but wanted to bleed the MC first to make sure before dumping money on a new one. Kinda wierd that with both of our cars this happens to after the same oil pan problem and replacing brake lines while we have the front end out. Im glad you fixed yours, but now I have to get to mine.

I was to busy this weekend pimping my accord. :naughty: I will have to send you pics since you never come to visit.:biglaugh:

You bought a HONDA and you expect me to visit?? Told you, my Nissan would smoke that Accord. All those accessories you are slapping on it won't help!
:icon_razz
 

mk3forme

New Member
Apr 5, 2005
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Lexington KY
LOL. These are look good accessories not performance accessories. Its not always about the HP. Sometimes its more about the driver.:naughty: