If i cared that much about air quality - i'd have a catalytic converter....and i dont 
Besides, who's going to notice in London!
Besides, who's going to notice in London!
BHG --> NO More
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jdub said:Well Ideal...I see you're still sticking to your "experience". Well that's fine, even though you're wrong. Do as you will, but just because it happens to work for you doesn't mean it WILL work for other cars in other parts of the country. I don't have to "think" what happens, what the VSV/EGR is for, or how it works...Toyota figured that out long ago.
BTW - you'll know it when I talk down to you...it will sound like I'm talking to a child, using very simple words. Keep in mind, you escalated with the "high horse" thing...if you want respect for your opinion, you have to respect the opinion of others. Especially when you're wrong
are you kidding? how exactly am i WRONG? what am i wrong about? that if you remove said items the car will run and start fine? thats funny because every car i have done it to does just that. RUNS AND DRIVES FINE. in CT and in FL in every seasonal situation between the two. Am i saying EVERY SINGLE CAR WILL BE PERFECT? no....im saying the ones i have seen are fine and i would be more opt to say others WOULD BE FINE then WOULDNT BE FINE.
how many have you personally removed and seen have problems? i would be willing to bet ZERO. and on top of that....first hand EXPERIENCE> BOOK KNOWLEDGE in every aspect. i know PLENTY of book/technical smart people who cant turn a wrench to save their lives. its great to know what things do...which by the way i know just fine thanks....but if you cant apply that knowledge all you are doing is regurgitating said knowledge.
and frankly you have come with NO evidence contrary to the fact that what i said is RIGHT. all you have said is "toyota put it on for a reason" yep they sure did. the same reason they put PS idle up, tems, taillight failure sensor, cruise control, and for that matter AC. its for creature comforts. its to make things the easiest as possible. HOWEVER...you can remove ANY OF THOSE THINGS and the car will run pretty much the same. it will drive pretty much the same. and again i dont find it taking 1 second longer to start being a problem....i dont find it dipping down 100rpm when i turn the wheel at idle being a problem.
bottom line is you are telling me im wrong because YOU THINK I AM...with nothing but what a book says to back it up.... i am telling you first hand experience...as in WHAT REALLY HAPPENS when said thing is done...apparently your word defies reality though. give me a break.
Idealsupra said:
You funny guy
Let me get this all straight from what you're saying.
Hot Start Idle Up VSV
- It's not a useful piece and can be removed with no impact, regardless of conditions
- It does not matter it's part of the EFI system
- Toyota put it there to solve an obscure, little seen problem
- Your experience proves all this
EGR Valve
- Another useless piece of equipment
- It's effect on lowering cylinder temps does not matter, even if hih cylinder temps can cause detonation
- It does not matter the ECU expects it to be there and functioning
- It does not matter the fuel maps in a USDM ECU assume the EGR is there
- It's ok to break federal law and remove it
- The increase in NOx emissions doesn't really matter
- Your experience proves all this
Now I'm going to talk down to ya son. I was working on high HP motors well before you were a gleam in your Daddy's eye...I've got more years of experience than you've been alive boy. I've played with machines that make a Mk III look like a kid's toy. I have a metal lathe, mill, car lift and more tools than you can count in my 55' x 35' 15' ceiling garage...if I don't have a part, I make it. I've worked on my '89 for the last 7 years, re-built the motor, upgraded/modified almost every system and accumulated the knowledge to back up my experience. If I didn't have the time, I had the sense to have it done and paid for it. I've personally worked on or fixed at least 8 Supra's here in Phoenix...one of them a vapor lock problem...caused by this VSV. I'm working on another motor right now with plans to push it past 500+ HP. I get over a dozen PM's on SM a day asking my advice on one thing or the other. I also have the sense to ask more knowledgeable guys questions even though I think I know the answer...a major difference from the way you operate.
You have yet to tell me what this VSV does and under what conditions it functions...that's because you don't have a clue. Then you try to compare a part of the EFI system with a tail light sensor for christ's sake. Your vast experience tells you don't have to know what this VSV does...I mean it's just like a tail light sensor or cruise control right? GTFO. Well, I'll tell you what it's for...it increases fuel pressure to prevent fuel vapor lock at high engine temps. It functions on command from the ECU when coolant temps reach 100 deg C and remains on for up to 2 minutes after the engine is started. The ECU also takes air temp sensor (in the AFM) as an input in controlling this VSV.
You might not have experienced vapor lock in your "limited" experience in Tampa. What you're too narrow minded to understand is there are parts of the country where it is a problem...if you took the time to understand how this VSV works, you would see that. In Phoenix during the summer with 110 deg + OATs (especially with a stock radiator), vapor lock is a problem on this motor. Yes I have seen it personally and my experience combined with REAL KNOWLEDGE made it easy to fix. You telling someone it's ok to remove based on your experience is BS...no consideration for the owner, the engine's condition, and in what climate they operate in.
Then you have the gall to tell me that I'm basing what I say solely on book knowledge and I don't have experience to back it up. Reprimand me to "get off my high horse"...that you "don't appreciate being talked down to". You need to get a grip son and figure out who your talking to before you spout off. The last thing I need is to have a punk in his mid twenties lecture me on my lack of experience...all 35+ years of it working on motors. The difference between me and you is I have the knowledge, the experience, and the brains to know when I need to ask or do research...or to back off and have the work done for me. You haven't moved from the "know-it-all" kid phase yet...give it another 10-15 years
I stand by my statement...you're wrong Ideal...I don't have to "think" you are. You've proved it in more ways than one from your response.
I'm done with you.
jdub said:You funny guy
Let me get this all straight from what you're saying.
Hot Start Idle Up VSV
- It's not a useful piece and can be removed with no impact, regardless of conditions
- It does not matter it's part of the EFI system
- Toyota put it there to solve an obscure, little seen problem with vapor lock
- Your experience proves all this
EGR Valve
- Another useless piece of equipment
- It's effect on lowering cylinder temps does not matter, even if it can cause detonation
- It does not matter the ECU expects it to be there and functioning
- It does not matter the fuel maps in a USDM ECU assume the EGR is there
- It's ok to break federal law and remove it
- The increase in NOx emissions doesn't really matter
- Your experience proves all this
Now I'm going to talk down to ya son. I was working on high HP motors well before you were a gleam in your Daddy's eye...I've got more years of experience than you've been alive boy. I've played with machines that make a Mk III look like a kid's toy. I have a metal lathe, mill, car lift and more tools than you can count in my 55' x 35' 15' ceiling garage...if I don't have a part, I make it. I've worked on my '89 for the last 7 years, re-built the motor, upgraded/modified almost every system and accumulated the knowledge to back up my experience. If I didn't have the time, I had the sense to have it done and paid for it. I've personally worked on or fixed at least 8 Supra's here in Phoenix...one of them a vapor lock problem...caused by this VSV. I'm working on another motor right now with plans to push it past 500+ HP. I get over a dozen PM's on SM a day asking my advise on one thing or the other. I also have the sense to ask more knowledgeable guys questions even though I think I know the answer...a major difference from the way you operate.
You have yet to tell me what this VSV does and under what conditions it functions...that's because you don't have a clue. Your vast experience tells you don't have to know. Well, I'll tell you what it's for...it increases fuel pressure to prevent fuel vapor lock at high engine temps. It functions on command from the ECU when coolant temps reach 100 deg C and remains on for up to 2 minutes after the engine is started. The ECU also takes air temp sensor (in the AFM) as an input in controlling this VSV.
You might not have experienced vapor lock in your "limited" experience in Tampa. What you're too narrow minded to understand is there are parts of the country where it is a problem...if you took the time to understand how this VSV works, you would see that. In Phoenix during the summer with 110 deg + OATs (especially with a stock radiator), vapor lock is a problem on this motor. Yes I have seen it personally and my experience combined with REAL KNOWLEDGE made it easy to fix. You telling someone it's ok to remove based on your experience is BS...no consideration for the owner, the engine's condition, and in what climate they operate in.
You have the gall to tell me that I'm basing what I say solely on book knowledge and I don't have experience to back it up. Then reprimand me to "get off my high horse"...that you "don't appreciate being talked down to". You need to get a grip son and figure out who your talking to before you spout off. The last thing I need is to have a punk in his mid twenties lecture me on my lack of experience...all 35+ years of it working on motors. The difference between me and you is I have the knowledge, the experience, and the brains to know when I need to ask or do research...or to back off and have the work done for me. You haven't moved from the "know-it-all" kid phase yet...give it another 10-15 years
I stand by my statement...you're wrong Ideal...I don't have to "think" you are. You've proved it in more ways than one from your response.
I'm done with you.
you know i stopped reading after i think the first sentence. i dont care to read any of because the fact of the matter is simply this:
you CANT sit there and tell me im WRONG about MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCES with things i have done. i am here saying "I HAVE REMOVED THESE AND THERE HAVE BEEN NO REAL NEGATIVE EFFECTS" THE END. how can you POSSIBLY tell me im wrong? how can you say im wrong that the cars i have removed these off of havent changed due to their removal?
i go out to my FAKE CAR, THAT IS IMAGINARY, that i removed these items and then some off of...and havent added anything but an intake and exhaust...and it turns right on when i want it to and drives where i want it to when i want it to.
how in the HELL can you sit there and say im wrong.
im done with this thread regardless of what you say. because YOU have proved YOUR ignorance with REALITY by saying im straight up wrong when i have PROOF sitting 20 ft outside of my front door that says otherwise.
what you fail to realize in your preaching ways is i said at one point in time if not twice in this thread " IN MY EXPERIENCE" meaning here and where ever else i have worked on these cars. i even said earlier that it might not be the same on every engine and every climate. maybe if you stopped to read what i say rather then try to be know it all yourself then you would understand that.
my 2nd post in this thread i believe was:
"if you take it off are you going to have problems hot starting the car? maybe but more likely then not, no."
my 1st post clearly stated on PURPOSE :
" i live in FL"
you think i put that for a dating service? i put that to give a climate location.
everything in your little autobiography doesnt impress me much. why? because i have done all the same things and have worked on MORE then 8 supras. many more. i dont have a big ass garage with lots of fun toys....i wish i did...but i do work out of my own garage and do plenty of the things you said...i get plenty of PMs and IMs a day from random people asking for help as well. also...i NEVER said you didnt have hands on experience..i simply said that i know people who think book knowledge is all that matters. never once did i say YOU ARE THIS PERSON. again you are jumping to talk down my throat before you comprehend simple sentences that i have typed.
really i have nothing against you and im not retarded. i know you know your shit and i know you are a great person on the boards. you think i dont know how to ask a more knowledgeable person when i want to know something? why dont you ask IJ about that...ive asked him a few things just to get another opinion that i knew was legit. my whole thing with this was they can be removed and have no negative effects...will EVERY engine react the same? of course not...BUT you are saying every engine WILL have problems and that is simply nowhere near the truth.
have a nice night.
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You're not getting it...you posted it was ok to remove in post #5
Nothing else about what it does or the downside of removing it. That is because you did not know...that is the bottom line here. You provided or implied something as fact when it was not true.
Then, all this drivel about experience...that I allowed myself to get caught up in. I should not have done that...it rarely does any good in this type of discussion. Especially with people of limited intelligence and/or experience.
Here's what's going to happen though. SC asked myself and others to squash the misinformation rampant on this board. That is what you did, regardless of if it happens to work for you. When I see this type of thing, I'm going to post the facts...like I did. You can expect the same in the future.
Got a problem with it...take it up with SupraCentral.
Idealsupra said:
Nothing else about what it does or the downside of removing it. That is because you did not know...that is the bottom line here. You provided or implied something as fact when it was not true.
Then, all this drivel about experience...that I allowed myself to get caught up in. I should not have done that...it rarely does any good in this type of discussion. Especially with people of limited intelligence and/or experience.
Here's what's going to happen though. SC asked myself and others to squash the misinformation rampant on this board. That is what you did, regardless of if it happens to work for you. When I see this type of thing, I'm going to post the facts...like I did. You can expect the same in the future.
Got a problem with it...take it up with SupraCentral.
From my experience, following the mob with all their 'it works for me' reasons never really works out. Listening to the few people who Actually know what they are talking about works out everytime. Sometimes its hard to accept the 1 person is right and the mob isnt but thats just how it is.
So, I try to listen to the people who actually know how the stuff works lol. jdub ftw.
So, I try to listen to the people who actually know how the stuff works lol. jdub ftw.
This thread is over... JS, sorry your thread got hammered man... Congrats on getting it started, enjoy it, have fun with it, be safe in it...
*this is the stuff that drives me crazy*
*this is the stuff that drives me crazy*
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