best suspension combos
- Thread starter stevenr816
- Start date
what about h&r? they look stiffer from the chart.Ckanderson said:
what would your price be for buying tokico illumina with tems and eibach spring kit?
pm me
stevenr816 said:
while they are stiffer, they also slam the car so you lose travel, and the ability to go over large speed bumps.
i have the price for eibach and tokico posted in my section.
thanks Wiisass... i didnt think itd be easy to select the proper spring rate for a given shock but wow, that quite a bit to take into consideration.
So, youd prefer my idea of throwing sleeve-over's on aftermarket shocks rather than megan's or an equivalent entry level coilover?
last time i looked, they sell those 2.5" springs by rate and free lenth. i dont remember seeing any that were progressive rate. so maybe thatd make selection easier?
i really dont want to lower my car more than 1"... any more than that and im running the risk of bottoming out and binding the shocks. speaking of binding shocks, i think thats the main problem people run into when lowering the car. i ran into that when i had Intrax springs over AGX's on my AWD DSM. it was really low and bottomed out routinely. within a few months, the shocks were blown out and KYB wouldnt warranty them if they were used w/ lowering springs. they also said i had to foot the bill to ship them back for a diagnosis before they even decided whether or not theyd replace them...
i dont want to run into that again... id like to pick a combo the first time that wont self destruct and provide a ride im comfortable with.
So, youd prefer my idea of throwing sleeve-over's on aftermarket shocks rather than megan's or an equivalent entry level coilover?
last time i looked, they sell those 2.5" springs by rate and free lenth. i dont remember seeing any that were progressive rate. so maybe thatd make selection easier?
i really dont want to lower my car more than 1"... any more than that and im running the risk of bottoming out and binding the shocks. speaking of binding shocks, i think thats the main problem people run into when lowering the car. i ran into that when i had Intrax springs over AGX's on my AWD DSM. it was really low and bottomed out routinely. within a few months, the shocks were blown out and KYB wouldnt warranty them if they were used w/ lowering springs. they also said i had to foot the bill to ship them back for a diagnosis before they even decided whether or not theyd replace them...
i dont want to run into that again... id like to pick a combo the first time that wont self destruct and provide a ride im comfortable with.
Yeah, there is a lot that should go into it. It just makes things easier in the long run if you put in the work before hand. Otherwise, you're stuck with some spring rates that may or may not be what's best for the car and then you have to mess around with different sway bars and try and tune the balance of the car and sometimes it works out and other times people just accept the flaws of the setup or a lot of times people just don't realize that the car could be much better than it is.
I do think the money would be much better spent on some bilsteins or konis and springs to match. I'm planning on dynoing the Bilsteins at least pretty soon, so I will have a much better idea on what springs you can run with them.
I do have a dyno plot of the stock Bilsteins that I got from Malloynx on here when he was working on his drag setup. And it looks like with the amount of rebound they have, you can get away with a pretty stiff spring on there without needing a revalve. The damping isn't totally ideal, but it looks like it would work pretty well.
I don't like progressive rate springs, at least not for any real driving. I would definitely recommend a linear spring, the selection is a lot easier because you know what to expect out of the spring. With most progressive springs, you don't know what to expect until you test them yourself. So there is some uncertainty on how it will work, what the rate will be at static, etc. It can be figured out and depending on the amount of progression it may not be a bad thing, but they just add too much complexity for what they're really supposed to do.
As for lowering your car more than 1", unless you're using way too soft of springs, you shouldn't be bottoming them out. And I'm not sure where they would be binding. I guess they could be binding at the lower mount because there is not enough movement allowed by the bushing at the bottom. But I don't know, I mean I'm sure the cause of the problems is too soft of springs that are shorter and just not enough travel. With a setup with a normal coilover spring and a properly selected rate, you can at least estimate how much wheel travel and shock travel you will have so you will know what to expect. With the progressives, again, you don't really know and since most of them seem soft, I could see that as being a big problem.
Right now, I'm working on getting some good dyno plots for the off the shelf bilsteins. So I will see what kind of rates can be run with that setup and how it will handle. And then I will be able to offer that setup as an alternative to my custom valved setups.
Tim
I do think the money would be much better spent on some bilsteins or konis and springs to match. I'm planning on dynoing the Bilsteins at least pretty soon, so I will have a much better idea on what springs you can run with them.
I do have a dyno plot of the stock Bilsteins that I got from Malloynx on here when he was working on his drag setup. And it looks like with the amount of rebound they have, you can get away with a pretty stiff spring on there without needing a revalve. The damping isn't totally ideal, but it looks like it would work pretty well.
I don't like progressive rate springs, at least not for any real driving. I would definitely recommend a linear spring, the selection is a lot easier because you know what to expect out of the spring. With most progressive springs, you don't know what to expect until you test them yourself. So there is some uncertainty on how it will work, what the rate will be at static, etc. It can be figured out and depending on the amount of progression it may not be a bad thing, but they just add too much complexity for what they're really supposed to do.
As for lowering your car more than 1", unless you're using way too soft of springs, you shouldn't be bottoming them out. And I'm not sure where they would be binding. I guess they could be binding at the lower mount because there is not enough movement allowed by the bushing at the bottom. But I don't know, I mean I'm sure the cause of the problems is too soft of springs that are shorter and just not enough travel. With a setup with a normal coilover spring and a properly selected rate, you can at least estimate how much wheel travel and shock travel you will have so you will know what to expect. With the progressives, again, you don't really know and since most of them seem soft, I could see that as being a big problem.
Right now, I'm working on getting some good dyno plots for the off the shelf bilsteins. So I will see what kind of rates can be run with that setup and how it will handle. And then I will be able to offer that setup as an alternative to my custom valved setups.
Tim
That information on the Bilsteins would be good to know. I have the stock replacement one's on my car now with stock springs, and have been considering getting the sleeves from Summit. I'd like to level the car, as the rear sits about 1" higher than the front. Would also like to get springs that would have a somewhat better ride quality. The current setup is a little harsh at low speeds, and this is my dd.
Well based on the information I have already, the ride isn't going to be affected that much. Ride quality is based on high speed compression damping, which is already pretty soft on these dampers. And changing the springs won't greatly affect the critical amount of compression damping. This is because the spring is series with the tire and the tires rate is much higher than the wheel rate of the corner.
But with the damping ratios as low as they are for high speed compression, maybe you're getting this harshness from somewhere else. Rebound is higher than I normally like with the Bilsteins and stock springs, so that could have a little to do with it, but that's a different feeling than harshness. Maybe I'm just taking what you're saying wrong.
I mean the only other thing I could think that would contribute to harshness that would be assumed as coming through the shock/spring would be the upper and lower mounts for the shock. The bushing on the bottom could be blown or your upper mounts could be shot. Otherwise, it has to be coming from somewhere else. Or your tolerance is just very low and you're interpreting the feeling as harsh when it's really not harsh.
Tim
But with the damping ratios as low as they are for high speed compression, maybe you're getting this harshness from somewhere else. Rebound is higher than I normally like with the Bilsteins and stock springs, so that could have a little to do with it, but that's a different feeling than harshness. Maybe I'm just taking what you're saying wrong.
I mean the only other thing I could think that would contribute to harshness that would be assumed as coming through the shock/spring would be the upper and lower mounts for the shock. The bushing on the bottom could be blown or your upper mounts could be shot. Otherwise, it has to be coming from somewhere else. Or your tolerance is just very low and you're interpreting the feeling as harsh when it's really not harsh.
Tim
Hmmm, I'll check the upper mounts(The shocks came with new bottom bushings, and they're only a year old). My car rides like the older 'vettes did new. Really hard at low speeds, you feel every little bump, but smooths out really well over 55.
Upgrading suspension isn't something I deal with much. Most people just want it stock, and fixed cheap as possible... Any information is greatly appreciated.
Upgrading suspension isn't something I deal with much. Most people just want it stock, and fixed cheap as possible... Any information is greatly appreciated.