battery relocation question

NashMan

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Aug 5, 2005
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well i think si have figure it out there is black wire and white wire that control the alt so if thous are triped alt will not work no more

but there is still an issue i have single pull kill switch i have yet to find duble pull even pain less does not make one if had one i be done long ago just by killing the main feed

so i have an idea how i going to do mine useing single pull switch it rather easy and kinda cruod but should work still trying to find a duble pull switch cause this is the last way i wana do ti

here is some mad tight ms paint skills yo
 
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NashMan

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Aug 5, 2005
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well here it is i did not put in the proper diagram since i want every one to under stand it
 
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mkiiichip

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I have a couple of questions about this topic that have not been completely covered.

In this link...
http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TEWD/MK3/manual.aspx?S=Main&P=042
The white wire near the battery. Is that the small gauge wire found at the positive terminal?
Whats wrong with running this wire to the starter? Where should it go when relocating the battery, all the way back to the pos terminal?
It has been mentioned that this is sloppy, or bad, I just dont see an alternative.
 

jetjock

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Jul 11, 2005
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Yes, that's the main feed for the car. You can either run it back to the battery or connect at the starter. Just be sure to keep the link or use some other sort of over-current protection either at the starter or battery. I'd run to the battery and fuse it there but that's me. And do the ground correctly...
 

mkiiichip

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Thanks JJ, last question. When a fuseable link says 2.0L, what does that mean. More specifically, what is the amp rating?
 

jstricker

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I see this issue on wiring a remote battery come up frequently so maybe I can help with ideas and specific recommendations.

*************DISCLAIMER***************
THIS IS NOT THE ONLY WAY THIS CAN BE DONE!! THIS IS THE WAY *I* DO IT AND I CAN GUARANTEE THAT FOLLOWING THIS METHOD WILL GET YOU THROUGH TECH IN SCCA, NASA, LEMONS, CHUMP CAR, AND NEARLY ALL ROAD RACE SANCTIONING BODIES. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THIS METHOD THAT'S FINE, DO IT YOUR WAY, I HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH THAT. IF YOU CAN'T READ A WIRING DIAGRAM OR DON'T UNDERSTAND BASIC ELECTRICAL CONCEPTS THEN DON'T ATTEMPT THIS BY YOURSELF!!! IMPROPER WIRING OR USE OF THIS ADVICE CAN CAUSE SERIOUS PROPERTY OR PERSONAL INJURY SO DON'T BLAME ME IF YOU SCREW IT UP. :)
*************END OF DISCLAIMER**************

Now with that out of the way, let's begin. The first thing you need is a kill switch approved by your sanctioning body. I use the 4430 switch from Pegasus Racing ( http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=1464 )

4430.jpg


(This switch as I understand it is not legal in NHRA. Why, I don't know, I'm not a drag racer and don't have a copy of their rule book.)

You can find this switch other places as well (HRP World, Racer Parts Wholesale, etc.) but it will be a very similar switch. Watch out for low quality chinese knockoffs, you get what you pay for when you're switching a couple hundred amps. The important thing is that it have 6 poles. Two heavy, main battery NO poles. Two spade terminal NO poles. Two spade terminal NC poles. Now on to the wiring, it's really not that hard.

Here's the basic wiring diagram:

Kill%20Switch%20Wiring.jpg


OK, on to specifics.

1) Battery Cables: I use Veri-Flex #2Ga Welding Cable. This is insulated for 600V, -40°C - +90°C. It is very flexible and has very fine wires and can easily carry anything your battery can deliver through it. One cable comes from the positive terminal of your battery to one of the heavy poles on the switch. These are 3/8" and you'll need some good quality copper lugs for the #2ga cable. I get mine from Fastenal. The other heavy cable runs from the other heavy pole on the switch directly to the starter. I also run a completely separate ground wire from the negative pole on the batter to the engine block or head itself. Make sure wherever you terminate this the area is clean and the paint is removed. I also use a star washer between the lug and the block head to make sure there is a good connection. In addition, I run a lighter gauge braided ground strap from the negative pole on the battery to the chassis somewhere near where the battery is mounted and another similar strap from the engine block to the firewall up front. You can't have too many grounds or too good of a ground.

Now we get to the interesting part, making sure when we flip the switch it kills the engine.

You are going to need a length of wire that will run from the switch to the igniter. This is not a single wire but is a three conductor, 14 ga wire. I use Standard brand electrical wire in a gray sheath that is p/n C14-3E. This sheath is very abrasion resistant and rated for 105°C. It doesn't matter if you're running a turbo car with DIS or a N/A car with a dizzy, both use an igniter. Find the wire that is switched on from the key to the igniter, near the igniter because you're going to cut that wire in a minute.

The wires are colored Green, Black, and White. The colors really don't matter which you use but I use the white and black to go to the igniter. Properly crimp female spades onto the two wires and plug them into the two terminals on the kill switch that are Normally Open. At the other end by the igniter cut the ignition wire and again, properly crimping or better still, soldering and heat shrinking, one end of each wire on the two ends you just cut. Now, when the switch is off, both your battery circuit is open and your ignition circuit is open.

What is the other circuit for? Glad you asked. When you interrupt the battery circuit like that the sense to the alternator reads "0" volts. On SOME alternators this can cause a huge output spike very briefly and has caused issues with popped electronics. Before some say this can't happen, I used to think that as well right up until I popped two PCM's for the Cadillac Northstar in our race Fiero. It CAN happen, especially if the electronics are old with tired caps in them, so we're going to stop that from happening.

You still have one more wire coming out at each end, the green one. On the engine compartment end, properly crimp a ring terminal that will fit the stud of the main power output on your alternator and put that wire there. Put a female spade terminal on the other end by the switch and plug it into one of the two remaining male spades on the switch. You have one more connection to make. Wire the supplied 3 ohm/11Watt resistor into a piece of wire long enough to reach your braided wire that you installed from the battery to the sheet metal in the trunk area. On one end put a ring terminal that will match the terminal on the braided strap, the other end will have a female spade connector that goes to the switch.

DOUBLE CHECK ALL YOUR WIRING NOW BEFORE YOU HOOK UP YOUR BATTERY!!! IF YOU HAVE THIS HOOKED TO THE WRONG SPADE TERMINALS YOU WILL HAVE A DEAD SHORT!!

With the master switch OFF go ahead and hook up your battery. Watch for any sparks or signs of an electrical contact as you do. If you have ANY sign of spark, you have something wrong. If all is good, hook up the battery properly. Now watching very closely, turn the master switch ON. Be ready to turn it off instantly in case you have something wired wrong. If all is still good, start the car. Everything should work as normal. With the car running, switch the master OFF and everything should be dead with no sparks or bad things happening.

You don't need to mess with the alternator wiring at all beyond adding the single grounding wire to the main alternator/battery feed.

What you're doing when you flip the switch is first it interrupts the battery and the ignition power to the igniter opening both of those circuits simultaneously. At the same time you are closing the circuit from the alternator feed wire to a ground through the resistor dumping whatever spike there may or may not be for that millisecond to ground protecting your electronics.

Hopefully this is clear enough to follow. As I said, there are other ways to do this but this is an approved method for most road racing sanctioning bodies and it will work safely every time if you wire it properly.

John Stricker
Russell, KS
 
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jetjock

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mkiiichip;1692262 said:
Thanks JJ, last question. When a fuseable link says 2.0L, what does that mean. More specifically, what is the amp rating?

Metric wires size (all wires in the car are metric) is denoted by cross sectional area in millimeters squared. That's what the 2.0 refers to. For that fusible link (p/n 90982-08202) the Body Electrical Manual says the L means 100.

100 what I'm not sure. Since 2.0 has a 10 second fusing current of around 200 amps I'm at a loss to explain the meaning unless there's something special about the link. That's generally not the case though. The main difference between links and normal wiring is the insulation. Link insulation doesn't burn.
 

mkiiichip

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So the best option is to just move the link to the power source, instead of using a fuse or circuit breaker.
 

taka21

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ok jumping in with a question here, how much voltage drop do you guys see cause on my safc2 im seeing it drop to 11.2v with the e-fans on and the headlights up while driving
my battery is in the spare tire well grounded to the rear bumper bolt that goes to the subframe, im moving it to where the back seats should be and im looking for any reason why my voltage is so low thanks
1yr old battery
 

jstricker

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taka21;1723256 said:
ok jumping in with a question here, how much voltage drop do you guys see cause on my safc2 im seeing it drop to 11.2v with the e-fans on and the headlights up while driving
my battery is in the spare tire well grounded to the rear bumper bolt that goes to the subframe, im moving it to where the back seats should be and im looking for any reason why my voltage is so low thanks
1yr old battery

That's a lot of drop if you're running the engine and it's showing 13.7 or so at the alternator normally. I personally see almost no difference but I run a dedicated ground cable of welding cable to the engine block just like if the battery was in the original location. Doing it that way you'll see little significant drop over the stock location but it means running two cables and not just one.

John Stricker
Russell, KS
 

taka21

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jstricker;1723284 said:
That's a lot of drop if you're running the engine and it's showing 13.7 or so at the alternator normally. I personally see almost no difference but I run a dedicated ground cable of welding cable to the engine block just like if the battery was in the original location. Doing it that way you'll see little significant drop over the stock location but it means running two cables and not just one.

John Stricker
Russell, KS

im looking into that now, i just went out there and checked the wiring and found that the bumper bolt does not in fact tie into the subframe so before i go spend more dough on that welding cable im going to bolt the ground directly to the rear subframe and then to the rear diff and check the voltage drop, im curious to see how that will work out. if its still causing issues after that then im just gonna follow your advice and shell out for the welding cable
ill post my results here when i get it done
 

jstricker

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taka21;1723289 said:
im looking into that now, i just went out there and checked the wiring and found that the bumper bolt does not in fact tie into the subframe so before i go spend more dough on that welding cable im going to bolt the ground directly to the rear subframe and then to the rear diff and check the voltage drop, im curious to see how that will work out. if its still causing issues after that then im just gonna follow your advice and shell out for the welding cable
ill post my results here when i get it done

You do know that the rear sub-frame is rubber isolated from the rest of the chassis, right?

Cable is cheaper than trying to find electrical gremlins, trust me.

John Stricker
Russell, Ks
 

destrux

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May 19, 2010
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Is there any good reason to go through all this trouble other than better weight distribution?

I was considering doing this, but adding 10 pounds worth of heavy cable and switches and all the hair I pulled out trying to make sure I did everything right seems like it would make it not worth it in the end. I'm thinking I'll just move the battery to the back of the engine bay on the passenger side and use a lightweight battery that weighs 15 pounds. The new mini AGM batteries have plenty of cranking power, and the technology keeps getting better and better.

I'm really looking forward to lithium ion batteries coming down in price. Once we see more cars come with them as OE... they will. Right now they're absurdly expensive ($1,500+ for one big enough for a car). Having a battery with 900 cranking amps that weighs 5 pounds and is the size of a brick is gonna be awesome though.
 

taka21

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jstricker;1723331 said:
You do know that the rear sub-frame is rubber isolated from the rest of the chassis, right?

Cable is cheaper than trying to find electrical gremlins, trust me.

John Stricker
Russell, Ks

yea i decided to take your advice and just run a dedicated ground all the way to the front, but im still seeing stupid voltage drop and its driving me nuts
im running a 130 amp alternator with brand new leads and a custom harness and at best im seeing 13.5v wich drops to 13.0 and lower if im running the fan and the headlights or anything else.
im desperately looking for a way to get a steady 14v but i dont see very many more options here any ideas
 

mkiiichip

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^pinpoint the voltage drops to a specific connection, and make adjustments. I have had to redo a couple connections since I relocated my battery.
 

honestabe

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If you don't have a spare tire like I do you can drill and tap the spare tire hold down for a screw in battery post terminal and then use a simple battery cable to ground it to the chassis. This is what I did and it not only looks really clean but works well.

 

GrimJack

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destrux;1723982 said:
Is there any good reason to go through all this trouble other than better weight distribution?
The big reason is typically room... anyone running a FFIM, whether aftermarket on a 7M or stock / aftermarket on a jz engine, wants the battery area for intercooler piping.

taka21;1729105 said:
yea i decided to take your advice and just run a dedicated ground all the way to the front, but im still seeing stupid voltage drop and its driving me nuts
im running a 130 amp alternator with brand new leads and a custom harness and at best im seeing 13.5v wich drops to 13.0 and lower if im running the fan and the headlights or anything else.
im desperately looking for a way to get a steady 14v but i dont see very many more options here any ideas

mkiiichip;1729117 said:
^pinpoint the voltage drops to a specific connection, and make adjustments. I have had to redo a couple connections since I relocated my battery.
This.

Eliminate the alternator by checking it is actually putting out 14 when those accessories are on. Then go back along the line, checking the drop at every connection you can, to see where you are losing the power. Eventually you'll probably find a connection that's corroded, or getting hot, or both.
 

IJ.

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honestabe;1729142 said:
If you don't have a spare tire like I do you can drill and tap the spare tire hold down for a screw in battery post terminal and then use a simple battery cable to ground it to the chassis. This is what I did and it not only looks really clean but works well.


So you have the entire currect draw for the car going through 4x 20 year old spot welds.... :nono:
 

NashMan

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adam I found a pretty good spot to ground if you choose to do it adn it's teh area around you rear seat belt since it has many spot welds and spot welded to the main frame of the unibody