ARP Head Bolt Issue. Has anyone else experienced this?

MikesFixedRoof

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Mar 23, 2009
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Ok so to make a long story short I had pulled my head and had it rebuilt a few months ago due to a burnt exhaust valve. (For the full length story check my "well she's hurt-mystery of the sudden #2 no compression misfire solved" thread). The car is stock save for a cat back and intake. Its my daily driver. I hardly ever beat on it. My goal was really to just get it fixed as soon as possible. So I got an oem composite hg and new arp head bolts. I used the suppiled arp assembly lube on the bolts, and torqed them in the order stated in the tsrm to 75ftlbs in three passes. I assumed this torque would be fine. Its also what arp recommends (i called them).

Not long after everything was done the temp gauge started going up and down for no obvious reason. I had no coolant loss, leaks, milky coolant, sweet smelling ehxaust, etc. Talked to the guy who did my cylinder head about it, and he suggested re torquing the head. So a few weeks ago, I went in to at least check them. I was shocked to find no less than 4 head bolts on the exh side alarmingly loose. Bolts on the intake side were pretty much as i had left them. So i brought all of them back up to 75/76lbs. The next day I decided to bring them up to about 80-82lbs for good measure, since ive heard of people torquing bolts from anywhere to 72 all the way to 100. Now, about a month or so since then, its just starting to act up again. After running at operating temp for say 10 to 15 minutes, the gauge will creep up between the half way point and the red hot mark, hang there for a minute or so, and then fall back down to the middle. And once it does this, it stays where its supposed to. I have a new toyota thermostat, new toyota coolant, and yes, a new temp sender in case anyone is wondering. I'm thinking I need to go back in and torque the bolts again. If i do, ill give them at least 88lbs. I just dont understand why the bolts got so loose. Any help would be greatly appreciated guys.
 

hvyman

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If they bolts were that loose coolant might have leaked into the sealing surface which no retorque would have fixed.

You should do a retorque after 5 heat cycles or 50 miles(I only say this because the first 50 on break in are the most crucial) to make sure they didnt back out.

Did you tap the threads on the block?

Might be time to take the head off again.
 

hvyman

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I also thought that air might be trapped at the temp sensor location but the fact that the head bolts were loose and the over heating continued it would prolly be the hg.
 

89supra7mgte

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Sep 20, 2009
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i literally had an intermittent water pump act the same way, it was a bmw, anyways what would happen was the impeller would free spin on the shaft at times, causing car to get hot then would catch all of sudden and cool back off.

I would check to see if coolant did get in to sealing surface of gasket, maybe a leak test on cooling system. also check water pump. is your cooling fan working properly also?
 

hvyman

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89supra7mgte;1564893 said:
i literally had an intermittent water pump act the same way, it was a bmw, anyways what would happen was the impeller would free spin on the shaft at times, causing car to get hot then would catch all of sudden and cool back off.

I would check to see if coolant did get in to sealing surface of gasket, maybe a leak test on cooling system. also check water pump. is your cooling fan working properly also?

You dont compare any bmw to a supra or toyota for that matter.

Pressure test would tell you if you had a coolant leak which OP stated he did not have any leaks or coolant lose just over heating.

Stock is a mech fan so even if it was bad most likely it would just lock up which case it would lock up at anything past about 3500rpm and cause the belt to squeak loudly.
 

89supra7mgte

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first i wasnt comparing the vehicles simply stated i had a "car" with similar issue and turned out water pump was cause. how would there not be a coolant loss with loose head bolts? if there is no leak in the coolant system, no excessive pressure in cooling system from combustion gases, then to me i would think either an extreme air bubble/pocket or coolant flow problem. A bad fan doesnt always lock up, sometimes they wont engage as well.

Just something to look at maybe.

Also to purge the cooling system you can lift the front of the car, no experience with this method but read it in here
 

Poodles

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Jul 22, 2006
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Once a composite headgasket leaks, it won't reseal from being retorqued. The sealing rings move and it's fucked, head's gonna have to come back off...
 

hvyman

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If its not sealed its going to leak so no.

General auto most stuff is the same but as far as comparing German cars to every thing else you might as well throw that out the window. German is German and as of late American is coping Japanese. So basically you have 2 categories: German and everything else.
 

89supra7mgte

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Thats what i figured, and the op stated he did not have any leaks? So that would mean that his gasket may have resealed or never fully unsealed from from loose bolts?
The head should come off for good measure and to be safe, but it sounds like a circulation problem.

Good to know about german and everything else.
 

hvyman

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Yup.
MikesFixedRoof;1564858 said:
Not long after everything was done the temp gauge started going up and down for no obvious reason. I had no coolant loss, leaks, milky coolant, sweet smelling ehxaust, etc.
 

89supra7mgte

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Sep 20, 2009
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OP: might be a dumb question but have you tried using an infrared heat gun to measure the temp at thermostat and such? may have faulty gauge? just a thought
 

Poodles

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Jul 22, 2006
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Compression test and block test are in order.

If it's not the headgasket, it will soon be if it's overheating, so you'll have to find the issue. Could be as simple as a shit t-stat.
 

MikesFixedRoof

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Mar 23, 2009
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hvyman;1564859 said:
If they bolts were that loose coolant might have leaked into the sealing surface which no retorque would have fixed.

You should do a retorque after 5 heat cycles or 50 miles(I only say this because the first 50 on break in are the most crucial) to make sure they didnt back out.

Did you tap the threads on the block?

Might be time to take the head off again.

Clearly I waited too long. From what I read & heard it seemed like retorquing was more like a preferance than a necessity. Didnt tap block threads. Bolts tightened nice and smoothly.

---------- Post added at 08:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:10 AM ----------

kotu100;1564860 said:
Did you burp the cooling system? Sounds like there's air stuck in there.

I was sure this was my problem for the longest time. And then I checked the head bolts... :( But yes I did burp it.

---------- Post added at 08:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 AM ----------

89supra7mgte;1564920 said:
first i wasnt comparing the vehicles simply stated i had a "car" with similar issue and turned out water pump was cause. how would there not be a coolant loss with loose head bolts? if there is no leak in the coolant system, no excessive pressure in cooling system from combustion gases, then to me i would think either an extreme air bubble/pocket or coolant flow problem. A bad fan doesnt always lock up, sometimes they wont engage as well.

Just something to look at maybe.

Also to purge the cooling system you can lift the front of the car, no experience with this method but read it in here

:) I understand what you're saying. My last car was an old Bmw & I worked in a Bmw specialist shop for 5 years. Ive seen first hand what happens to the water pumps on some of them. But alot of older bimmers do have a fluid coupling mechanical fan like the mk3. My fan clutch is new & my pump is good.
 

Heavy D

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Jun 3, 2009
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damn thats weird, i had my ARP bolts tq to 80lbs, my car never over heated but cause the head was not flat enough i had a pin hole size and leaked into cylinder 6, and i had a OEM HG
 

MikesFixedRoof

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Mar 23, 2009
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Queens, NY
Well I just drove to work. And now im pretty convinced that the head has to come back off. It ran hot afor the last 10 minutes of my commute, electric fans kicking on. Got to work, saw overflow bottle full to the opening. So clearly i have combustion getting into the cooling system. Aggggh FML.:3d_frown: