Arizona Performance Wilwood Front/Rear Brakes

[dumbo]

Sorry if this is off topic, but I may soon be the proud owner of ARZ's 13" Front 6 Pistons BBK, and 12.9" Rear 4 Piston BBK. I'm running 245/45R-17 Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R.

My car is a 86.5 Non-ABS.

My questions are, does anyone have this setup? And do you think it'll be a good combination?

 

[jdub]

It is off topic in that thread...you should know better.

Ummm...Andy is an engineer. He designed the front & rears as a set using the highest quality materials. He's tested them as well, however, I am not sure about a non-ABS car.

 

[crisp]

I know this doesn't answer the questions "specifically", but my car IS ABS, but I believe it's NON-functioning (went from A/T to M/T and anti-lock light is always "on" now... ) and put the 4-pot Wilwood kit from Andy on the fronts ONLY so far... and can CHIRP the fronts if I "stab" at the pedal, even at HIGH speeds, but it all works GREAT, even though I haven't matched to rears up yet. I CAN feel the rear of the car "pushing" on the fronts, causing "squirm" in the rubber/road patch under heavy breaking right up to "lock-up", with the rears feeling "unloaded" since all the decel force is on the front binders, but it STILL hauls this car down HARD repeatedly.:biglaugh:


LOVE my Wilwood's, and hope to do the rear + e-brake kit if I ever get the $$ saved up!


G/L with YOUR setup! (PS: although mine are RE960AS Pole Positions for the WET traction, and only 235's to maintain the "sleeper" rims, my Potenza's work GREAT for how I drive with these brakes.)


Thumbs up for the Wilwood's and the GREAT service from ARZ, in any case!



-crisp

 

[dumbo]

Sorry jdub I just thought it's along the same line as a brake bias questions.

I allready told Andy I would get them then I read that thread, so I was just curious but not too concerened.

Crisp, you got the 4 piston 13" fronts correct? And 16" rims? How tight was the fit?


I'm gonna include a pic of my rim. Can anyone tell me if they shoved the 6piston calipers and 13" rotors under there 17" wheels? I know about the template but its a long story... thanks, there TSW rims btw, pic has old tires.

 

[crisp]

Crisp, you got the 4 piston 13" fronts correct? And 16" rims? How tight was the fit?

17" rims (from 2004 Solara!) using a 1/4"? spacer (offset is JUST a little tight for comfort) and my 4 piston 13's clear by MAYBE 2mm! VERY VERY tight, but NO ISSUES after the first couple thousand miles of HARD use!:biglaugh:

...I think I have a pic, but it's not too clear on the clearance... but if you took two credit cards stacked, you'd be FRICTION FITTING them between the caliper and spokes for sure!

They don't look AS TIGHT as they are... but BARELY clear the Solara rim spokes!:biglaugh:


-crisp

 

[crisp]

I'm gonna include a pic of my rim. Can anyone tell me if they shoved the 6piston calipers and 13" rotors under there 17" wheels? I know about the template but its a long story... thanks, there TSW rims btw, pic has old tires.

Man, I don't know about the 6-pots, but looking at YOUR rims/spokes to stock rotor, it LOOKS like MORE clearance is there than my Solara rims, which are only 7.5" wide. (I forget the off-set... but DID use the spacer.)


My install was a straight-up bolt-on affair as Andy said. ONLY "extra" work was CUTTING the shields off, which took just a couple minutes on each side with a cutting wheel.

I'd certainly read Andy's instructions through carefully before starting, but my install went great, and I did the "bed-in" with my first drive on the first evening with them in. No issues! (Don't forget to CLEAN/WIRE BRUSH the under-hat surface VERY WELL so there is NO contaminant before installing the new hats.)

-crisp

 

[dumbo]

No spacer(where can you get them?), I'm a litte worried too. Did you try to get the 6 piston calipers?

My car is in BC right now if not I would print off the template and know the size and what not.

 

[crisp]

No spacer, I'm a litte worried too. Did you try to get the 6 piston calipers?

My car is in BC right now if not I would print off the template and know the size and what not.

After discussion with Andy, considering I ONLY drive "street" with no auto-x, and since the 6-pots can "break motor mounts":naughty: if hit TOO hard TOO often... (perhaps not THAT violent... but if you can CHIRP them on decel with the 4-pots from triple digits... it becomes a matter of preference after that, I suspect...) I went with the fours and am quite happy! Just need the REAR brakes to be brought up to snuff!


-crisp

 

[dumbo]

After discussion with Andy, considering I ONLY drive "street" with no auto-x, and since the 6-pots can "break motor mounts":naughty: if hit TOO hard TOO often... (perhaps not THAT violent... but if you can CHIRP them on decel with the 4-pots from triple digits... it becomes a matter of preference after that, I suspect...) I went with the fours and am quite happy! Just need the REAR brakes to be brought up to snuff!


-crisp

Break motor mounts:icon_surp That doesn't sound good haha.

I'm the kinda guy that goes overkill on almost everything haha, plus I'm planning for the future too. Did you see my edit, Where can you get wheel spacers? I take it you mean triple digits MPH too EH!

They look good btw I'm hoping Andy gets back to me today but he said he's going away for a week

 

[jdub]

The 6 pots are waaayyy overkill IMO.

 

[crisp]

The 6 pots are waaayyy overkill IMO.

^^^ I would have to agree. In fact, the suggestion that 4 were adequate came FROM ANDY, as you can "hang your passenger in the belts" NO PROB with the fours. (Of course, if you LIKE to stop on a dime with JUST your pinky toe...)

Not to DISCOURAGE the 6-pots, but after being SO CLOSE with my 4's on the clearance (don't know the "layout" of the sixes and if different...) I am glad I didn't risk it. If I'm not mistaken, "bragging rights" was another "reason" for the six-pot per Andy... and there's NOTHING WRONG with that!:biglaugh:


As far as spacers... ANY tire place should have them.


PS: Here's my thread link where I picture my Wilwood install, in case you hadn't seen it!:biglaugh:

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91194&page=23


From post 227, I think!


-crisp

 

[dumbo]

Ummm...Andy is an engineer. He designed the front & rears as a set using the highest quality materials. He's tested them as well, however, I am not sure about a non-ABS car.

I did not know that, and that puts me even more at rest. Hopefully the ABS isn't a issue.

The 6 pots are waaayyy overkill IMO.

Perfect haha. IDK there only 350$ more. I just figure if I'm spending this much, why not go all the way right?

 

[IJ.]

There is only xx traction/retardation to be had from street rubber, once a wheel is locked you're not slowing any quicker even if you have 36 piston callipers

 

[dumbo]

^^^ I would have to agree. In fact, the suggestion that 4 were adequate came FROM ANDY, as you can "hang your passenger in the belts" NO PROB with the fours. (Of course, if you LIKE to stop on a dime with JUST your pinky toe...)

Not to DISCOURAGE the 6-pots, but after being SO CLOSE with my 4's on the clearance (don't know the "layout" of the sixes and if different...) I am glad I didn't risk it. If I'm not mistaken, "bragging rights" was another "reason" for the six-pot per Andy... and there's NOTHING WRONG with that!:biglaugh:


As far as spacers... ANY tire place should have them.


PS: Here's my thread link where I picture my Wilwood install, in case you hadn't seen it!:biglaugh:

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91194&page=23


From post 227, I think!


-crisp

HOLY:aigo::aigo:

Those pics of the Wilwoods beside the stockers.WOW. ANY doubt that I should get these is out the window. They also look amazing. I'm not one for spending money on looks, but if they serve as a upgrade/purpose and look great, no problem there.

Unfortunately, I haven't got a reply from my email this morning so he must allready be away from the shop I should of made up my mind yesterday instead of pondering it...dang.

 

[dumbo]

There is only xx traction/retardation to be had from street rubber, once a wheel is locked you're not slowing any quicker even if you have 36 piston callipers

Nah I know, but least I got them for the future and whatever becomes of the poopra. Plus there on sae haha.



Just judging by the pictures on his website they seem to be almost the same physical size as the 4pistons, just the 6 has smaller pistons.

 

[jdub]

I did not know that, and that puts me even more at rest. Hopefully the ABS isn't a issue.

Perfect haha. IDK there only 350$ more. I just figure if I'm spending this much, why not go all the way right?

I've been to Andy's house and had a look at some of the design drawings...he was working on the rears with the parking brake option at the time iirc. We talked a while about the kits...Andy has put a lot of effort into making these match up with the MK III. Specifically the master cylinder available volume and bias. It would really surprise me if he didn't include the non-ABS cars in the design process.

I still don't get why you want the 6 piston version, other than the baller appeal?

 

[dumbo]

I've been to Andy's house and had a look at some of the design drawings...he was working on the rears with the parking brake option at the time iirc. We talked a while about the kits...Andy has put a lot of effort into making these match up with the MK III. Specifically the master cylinder available volume and bias. It would really surprise me if he didn't include the non-ABS cars in the design process.

I still don't get why you want the 6 piston version, other than the baller appeal?

I don't know why not. He's got them for a reason I guess, and if I race the car one day least I got them.

 

[jdub]

The 6 piston is a superior caliper with differential bores iirc. They provide a different lead bite on the pad vs the 4 piston to reduce wear and squeaking. You do realize the 6 and 4 piston calipers use the same pad, so don't expect any additional stopping power out of the 6 piston version. It's a matter of caliper quality, feel, and reduced pad wear that give the 6 piston an advantage.

Now that I think about it, Andy has an adjustable rear proportioning valve available (not sure if it's included in the kit)...that should make the ABS vs non-ABS a non-issue.

 

[IJ.]

My AP 4 spots have differential pistons...

 

[dumbo]

Looking at the pictures I thought the pistons looked like different sizes, but I shrugged it off as camera angle/picture. Thats an interesting point, I also did not know that, but wouldn't there be overall more surface area of the pistons which could mean more force just acting on the same pad? Either way thats good news. Even though like IJ said theres know way street tires could have the traction to put it to use.

I don't think there's any proportioning valve in the kit, but isn't that just a variable orifice?