AR5 Trans Take Two: The Solstice Solution

[limequat]

The next piece of the puzzle is the front bearing retainer. The Supra retainer allows you to run the GTE pull-type clutch and provides a surface for the throwout bearing to slide on. Again, it's a direct bolt-on to the AR5 case. Thus concludes what it takes to bolt the AR5 to the 7M with the supra clutch.

Next is figuring out the shifter. As mentioned before, the Solstice has crazy mechanism to move the shifter back about 8 inches. This would put it in the glove box in a Supra. There are no off-the-shelf shifters that bolt to Aisin tailhousing and put the shifter in the normal location. A 2WD Colorado transmission may remedy this problem, but I think the shifter is too far forward. So I decided to mount the Supra shifter and housing to the Solstice tail.

First the tail has to come off so you can mount the R154 shift rod actuator thing. See the attachment.

 

[IJ.]

LQ: Wonder if it uses the same sintered metal thrust washer as the 154?

 

[limequat]

Next I had to cobble up a shifter housing using the Supra part and the Solstice base. This part allows me to use the bone-stock supra shifter in the exact location I want. Perfect.

At first I was concerned about using the Supra shifter as opposed the Solstice shifter. I think many of us have noticed the notchy feel of the R154. However, looking at the R154 shifter vs the AR5 shifter, I can say that it's not the shifter...it's the transmission! The R154 shifter is actually a very nice piece.

I can now shift the AR5 with the Supra shifter and it is like butter!

 

[limequat]

LQ: Wonder if it uses the same sintered metal thrust washer as the 154?

Have we determined that it's sintered metal in the R154? I'll let you know if I break mine

 

[IJ.]

I think I read a test report over on Mk3 tech to that effect and it would explain the failures!

Shifter mounts looks great well done !

 

[supradan22]

OMG Limequat your fast work is very impressive when do u belive its gona be on a supra running?

 

[Doward]

Very nice! +1 for you! I'm a little concerned about the 225 lbs/ft tq limit, though.

Yes, a .63 5th would be very nice, imho. The 7M has a lot more torque than most 6's of its same size. I ran around with a 3.42 rear and a .73, for a 2.49 - and I found that when I cruise on the highway, I was spinning more RPM than I like. A .63 on my 3.91s would be ideal, for me.

 

[Jeff Lange]

The R154 has a 254ft-lb limit. 225ft-lb isn't that far off, but it's a somewhat pointless number anyways, since it has no bearing on what the transmission can actually take.

 

[miekedmr]

The R154 has a 254ft-lb limit. 225ft-lb isn't that far off, but it's a somewhat pointless number anyways, since it has no bearing on what the transmission can actually take.

That's probobly the amount of torque that they expect the transmission to handle without breaking during its entire expected lifespan, rather than newly built with fresh oil.

BTW... your contribution is greatly appreciated, lime

 

[limequat]

OMG Limequat your fast work is very impressive when do u belive its gona be on a supra running?

Heh, I wouldn't be documenting all this if I didn't already know the outcome.

 

[limequat]

That's probobly the amount of torque that they expect the transmission to handle without breaking during its entire expected lifespan, rather than newly built with fresh oil.

BTW... your contribution is greatly appreciated, lime

Thanks, glad to be of service.
Jeff, is correct. The rating has no relevence to the actual capability of the trans. It is merely the most powerful engine that it has been mated to thus far. We will see that number jump to 260 ft-lbs when the turbo Solstice is introduced.

 

[limequat]

I wanted to post on using the Supra tailshaft, though I didn't go that way.

Using the supra housing would (pontentially) allow you to retain a stock speedo, abs, and remove the need for the custom shifter housing.
I spent many hours grinding, filing, and clearancing the supra housing to get it to fit over the Ar5 gear. It was all for not, as there is simply no way to get the tailshaft support bearing in the correct spot. Which is a bummer, because the tailhousing has to come off anyway to get that shifter lever thing on.

Furthmore, I'm left with only a passive sensor and mechanical speedo drive. Not to say it couldn't be machined, but I'd prefer to build a circuit than a custom speedo drive gear. I've purchased an electric speedo out a camry. I'll try to hack it into th supra cluster when the time comes.

 

[Greg55_99]

Good stuff for sure. Correct me if I'm wrong however. Does the AR5 have an aluminum sandwich plate as opposed to the R154's cast iron one? Also, what is the exact length of the input shaft? Have you had them together to verify it doesn't bind on the crank? Lots of questions!

Greg

 

[limequat]

Good stuff for sure. Correct me if I'm wrong however. Does the AR5 have an aluminum sandwich plate as opposed to the R154's cast iron one? Also, what is the exact length of the input shaft? Have you had them together to verify it doesn't bind on the crank? Lots of questions!

Greg

Hi Greg, glad to see you found my celebration.
You know, I'm not sure what the sandwich plate is made of (is that what it's really called?). I just noticed that it isn't rusted. I'll check it out tonight.

I took measurements of the input shaft but forgot where I put them. I'll see if I can dig that up too. I do remember that it was VERY close to bottoming out in the crank. The Solstice input is ~1/4 longer than the supra, but the splines are in roughly the same location.

However, I do have the entire front end together and nothing binds: 7M Crank => 32 x 15 pilot bearing => Solstice Input => S10 Clutch => Supra Clutch cover.

 

[limequat]

OK, with the front end together, and the shifter in, the last piece of the puzzle before test is the driveshaft.

The solstice uses a funky flange bolted to the output shaft, similar to the output of a 4x4's transfer case. That bolts to a CV joint, which is in turn friction welded to a small diameter (about 2") mild steel shaft. The Solstice pinion flange is a triangular 3-bolt design with a rubber damper between it and the driveshaft.

I got quotes for welding the supra pinion flange to the Solstice shaft: Anywhere from $400 to $1200. Yeah, that's a little rediculous for a mild steel shaft.

Removing flange from the output shaft reveals standard GM splines, but only about 1.5" deep. I decided to go with a regular slip-yoke even though the engagement is questionable. This is another problem that would have been solved by using the Colorado trans.

 

[drjonez]

have you talked to the driveshaft shop in troy (can't remember the name now...)? they should be able to make you a shaft for the price of those quotes...

 

[limequat]

have you talked to the driveshaft shop in troy (can't remember the name now...)? they should be able to make you a shaft for the price of those quotes...

Yeah, I think it was Dynatech. They're the ones that gave me the $800 quote, "1200 if I want it balanced".

 

[drjonez]

WHAT?!?!?!? you're kidding? everyone i know that deals w/them says they're cheap....that sux.

heck, i've got a welder, have @ it!

 

[limequat]

WHAT?!?!?!? you're kidding? everyone i know that deals w/them says they're cheap....that sux.

heck, i've got a welder, have @ it!

Heh, you don't know how seriously I considered busting out the MIG

I wound up getting a smiple Chevy slipe yoke that fit the same diameter as the stock Supra pinion flange. Cost me $275 at some hole-in-the-wall in Livonia. Still way too much for a stupid shaft, but better than $1200.

Get this: Those jokers at Dynatech, saw me come in with a 2006 Solstice shaft and figured I was GM! Probably thought they could get an extra $500 markup if it was on Lutz's dime.

 

[Greg55_99]

Well Lime, since you've opened up this can of worms, how would you evaluate the stock shifter location of the the AR5 out of the Solstice with the shifter location of the Soarer R154?

Would you say they're pretty close?

Greg