Anyone think of a good reason the 1j wasn't put in USDM Supras?

[Dylan JZ]

True, plus the 7M totally went with the whole Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles theme at the time too, you know, all the green ooze coming out

 

[SupraMedical68]

True, plus the 7M totally went with the whole Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles theme at the time too, you know, all the green ooze coming out

Ah yes, we now know The "Secret of the Ooze" was actually just Toyotas lack of a recall on our OEM headgaskets... Yeah, I went there :icon_bigg

 

[mattsplat72]

Another thing that may have happened is that Toyota discontinued the production of the G and M series motors in favor of the JZ series and had to " purge " the lines of the remaining 7m's and 1g's. Hence the continuation of the 7m in the foreign market while the closer home market got the new motor. Makes sense to debut the new motor at home where it was going to be installed in a large number of cars rather then a market that was seeing the end of the line.


As far as the displacement argument . I think that is negated by the twin turbo . Americans do think that more is better and I think that the addition of a second turbo would easily compensate for the .5 liter reduction in displacement. It did for me. The common most question I get when I tell people that I have a Supra is " is it a twin turbo?". Every one focuses on the perceived DOUBLE power out put of twins...

 

[CT26smoker]

The G series was not dropped, as it's available in Japan in other cars, like the Altezza.

Never mind, that is a G-FE engine.........
Another useless sub-3 liter engine from Toyota.

 

[te72]

True, plus the 7M totally went with the whole Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles theme at the time too, you know, all the green ooze coming out

This was about the funniest damn thing I've read in a long time... COWABUNGA! :biglaugh:

Another thing that may have happened is that Toyota discontinued the production of the G and M series motors in favor of the JZ series and had to " purge " the lines of the remaining 7m's and 1g's. Hence the continuation of the 7m in the foreign market while the closer home market got the new motor. Makes sense to debut the new motor at home where it was going to be installed in a large number of cars rather then a market that was seeing the end of the line.

This is another extremely valid theory. No sense in having hundreds, if not thousands of spare motors sitting on a shelf for the rest of forever...

 

[RazoE]

In the end it just boils down to there was nothing to put it in..

/thread

 

[A. Jay]

That's what he said.

 

[SupraMedical68]

Here's another thing too that could've happened as well in addition to other factors... When the '89 Nissan Skyline GTR came out the Toyota Executives were probably thinking they needed to produce an engine that would help them stay competive for the Japanese market until the JZA80 was released. It seems somewhat resonable that when Nissan unleased it's mighty RB motor that toyota would produce a motor with a similar amount of displacement. Maybe that's why we never saw it on U.S shores because it was only intended for them to stay competive in their own market.

I guess it wouldn't be that different from the competition of the Viper and Corvette Z06. Everytime Dodge or Chevy comes out with a improvement the other company has to counter with something equally impressive to stay competive for the U.S.

Just my .02 cents

 

[Dylan JZ]

This was about the funniest damn thing I've read in a long time... COWABUNGA! :biglaugh:

glad ya liked it! haha

Here's another thing too that could've happened as well in addition to other factors... When the '89 Nissan Skyline GTR came out the Toyota Executives were probably thinking they needed to produce an engine that would help them stay competive for the Japanese market until the JZA80 was released. It seems somewhat resonable that when Nissan unleased it's mighty RB motor that toyota would produce a motor with a similar amount of displacement. Maybe that's why we never saw it on U.S shores because it was only intended for them to stay competive in their own market.

I guess it wouldn't be that different from the competition of the Viper and Corvette Z06. Everytime Dodge or Chevy comes out with a improvement the other company has to counter with something equally impressive to stay competive for the U.S.

Just my .02 cents

I think I agree with most of what you said, in addition to, what I said about Toyota wanting to race in the same class as the Skylines..

Another thing that may have happened is that Toyota discontinued the production of the G and M series motors in favor of the JZ series and had to " purge " the lines of the remaining 7m's and 1g's. Hence the continuation of the 7m in the foreign market while the closer home market got the new motor. Makes sense to debut the new motor at home where it was going to be installed in a large number of cars rather then a market that was seeing the end of the line.


As far as the displacement argument . I think that is negated by the twin turbo . Americans do think that more is better and I think that the addition of a second turbo would easily compensate for the .5 liter reduction in displacement. It did for me. The common most question I get when I tell people that I have a Supra is " is it a twin turbo?". Every one focuses on the perceived DOUBLE power out put of twins...

All very good points IMO.


Still, it seems the 1JZ had too many drawbacks for a release in the U.S. versus Japan, where most the points all pointed to a positive outcome.

 

[JDMMA70]

The person who mentioned it from a racing standpoint. From what ive read the 1JZ was developed most in part to be a direct competitor to the RB26. Renik designed the RB26 that went into the Grp. A GT-R's to be a race motor which is ironically funny because the street RB26's are complete trash especially the early varients. While Toyota used the 7M, before the GT-R made its debut the Supra was quite sucessful winning its debut race. Wasnt until the GT-R came that it sat in its shadow. From my understanding of Grp. A rules at the time Engine Displacement and Weight went hand in hand. If you had a larger displacement motor you had to run more weight and wider tires and same goes for a smaller engine. The Grp. A GT-R was originally going to use a 2.0L Inline 6 but Nissan/Renik decided on using the newly developed RB26 instead. The idea behind that was because they were going to add ATTESA to the GT-R's they wanted a bigger engine to pull the extra weight that would result in fitting the system. TRD pulled out of Grp. A after the 1990 season. The 1JZ couldve made a debut with the Supra in Grp. A however they failed to meet homologation in time and Grp. A was no more after 1994. As for why it didnt come equipped in 90+ Supras in the USA my guess would be sales for one and marketing. Sales really started to drop for the Supras in 89 even more so in 90. Possibly knowing they were going to release the MK4 in 3 years time probably decided it was worth the extra money to market it here. Plus i agree with what everyone said Americans like displacement. Imagine if the non turbo supra came with a 1G-GE how many people then do you think wouldve bought one.

 

[Dylan JZ]

Thanks for the info! I'd always read/heard similar things but wanted to see if anyone else had something to add.

 

[sixpatch]

I think you also have to keep in mind the reputation Turbo's had by 1990 in the US. Between the SVO, the Conquest TSI and the 300zx the american market was sick of turbo headaches. Then keep in mind the 7m headgasket issues that everyone was experiencing in their 2 year old Supras with no recall available. Then lastly, to stay reliable and operate in the brilliant manner that we've come to know and love from our 1j's, you really need solid computer technology to control it all. I think all the reasons formentioned coupled with the lack of proven computer technology in automotive applications for long term use had to have contributed. Plus, I wouldn't send a new motor design into a market that can effect my global reputation,( where they expect a car to go 200,000 miles instead of 50,000) without having two years of solid public review first. ESPECIALLY if I am marketting it to compete with the Corvette.

But that's just my two cents.

 

[Poodles]

I think you also have to keep in mind the reputation Turbo's had by 1990 in the US. Between the SVO, the Conquest TSI and the 300zx the american market was sick of turbo headaches. Then keep in mind the 7m headgasket issues that everyone was experiencing in their 2 year old Supras with no recall available. Then lastly, to stay reliable and operate in the brilliant manner that we've come to know and love from our 1j's, you really need solid computer technology to control it all. I think all the reasons formentioned coupled with the lack of proven computer technology in automotive applications for long term use had to have contributed. Plus, I wouldn't send a new motor design into a market that can effect my global reputation,( where they expect a car to go 200,000 miles instead of 50,000) without having two years of solid public review first. ESPECIALLY if I am marketting it to compete with the Corvette.

But that's just my two cents.

Headgaskets wheren't an issue...

 

[mattsplat72]

I don't think the head-gaskets would have failed that soon on stock boost settings. There would have been a recall. The first 7mgte was in the 87 model, The head-gaskets would have started to go by 92. I don't think the Supra would have sold in the numbers it did. I think the common problems with the 7m now are irrelevant to the 7m's when they were new. It took my GTE over a decade to let go. The second one even longer.

Was the jza70 cap problem an issue when they were new? if not then I don't see that factoring in either.

 

[Poodles]

I don't think the head-gaskets would have failed that soon on stock boost settings. There would have been a recall. The first 7mgte was in the 87 model, The head-gaskets would have started to go by 92. I don't think the Supra would have sold in the numbers it did. I think the common problems with the 7m now are irrelevant to the 7m's when they were new. It took my GTE over a decade to let go. The second one even longer.

Was the jza70 cap problem an issue when they were new? if not then I don't see that factoring in either.

There's not a whole lot of people on these forums that owned a MKIII when new, but any failure AFTER the warranty isn't covered unless it's a safety issue. Also, most HG failures I've seen are from age/milage and/or bumping the boost up. Was the torque spec a bit low? Sure. Was it the HUGE failure people make it out to be? No. Own another sports car and then complain about the Supra...but I know you won't.

 

[Dylan JZ]

Was the jza70 cap problem an issue when they were new? if not then I don't see that factoring in either.

Cap problem? Can you elaborate, I've never heard of this, unless it's referred to differently by some folks.

 

[mattsplat72]

Capacitors in the JZA70 ecu , the ones that Aaron replaces.

I was referring to this "the lack of proven computer technology in automotive applications sixpatch"

Poodles, I agree with 99% of what you wrote. With the exception of the warranty issue. You are right they would not have recalled all the cars,but the would have put out a TSB ( Technical Service Bulletin) if enough cars had the same problem. I have had a few already on my Tacoma. ( more on this is a different thread ).
I agree with the statement of ownership, but for this debate we are dealing with the hypothetical question of why wasn't the 1j in 1990 usdm supras so the 2011 problems with the 7m are irrelevant. For the sake of discussion I am attempting to avoid the 7m sucks argument ( not saying you were doing that )

 

[sixpatch]

Was the torque spec a bit low? Sure. Was it the HUGE failure people make it out to be? No. Own another sports car and then complain about the Supra...but I know you won't.

My mistake. Sorry. I was basing the headgasket part on second hand information and I should've asked you guys first. Own another sports car?
Been there and done it. There's a reason I drive a Supra.
But take away what I said about headgaskets, and you still have the point of the US Market not being the best for a new Turbo setup in 1990. Looking at it from a purely analytical standpoint, SVO sales weren't the best, the Thunderbird Super-Coupe didn't exactly succeed, and despite how awesome it was, the GNX was discontinued. Couple that with the idea that they were going to release the 2j in a couple years, and you have a very good reason not to release the 1j in America. (Soley from a marketing perspective)

 

[Dylan JZ]

Capacitors in the JZA70 ecu , the ones that Aaron replaces.

ah, okay.. I thought you were referring to something mechanical.

 

[Flateric]

Ya, I have owned my car since new and the HG issue was not yet really known or commonly failing as of just yet. I believe it was 94 for me when I started doing my bigger upgrades and the HG was just on the edge of letting go when we cracked the motor at that time. I had been running a boost controller though and FCD so I was not pushing stock boost levels.

But in 1990 when I got my baby new it was not something that anyone at the time really knew of as a common issue.