Another Head Gasket Question...Sorry

gtsfirefighter

gtsfirefighter

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Sep 26, 2006
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Ok, I was checking out Supra's on ebay and there is a black 88 turbo and in the description he or she says that the engine was rebuilt and has an "updated" head gasket. So my question is, are the stock head gaskets you buy from Toyota exactly the same as they were back then or have they been "updated". Now I know he may be referring to a metal HG but there is no mention of it and people usually brag about that when trying to sell there car so let's assume he talking non-metal HG. Curious to know because I just picked up my stock HG from Toyota today and DAMN! They are proud of those little bastards!
 
JesseH

JesseH

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gtsfirefighter said:
Ok, I was checking out Supra's on ebay and there is a black 88 turbo and in the description he or she says that the engine was rebuilt and has an "updated" head gasket. So my question is, are the stock head gaskets you buy from Toyota exactly the same as they were back then or have they been "updated". Now I know he may be referring to a metal HG but there is no mention of it and people usually brag about that when trying to sell there car so let's assume he talking non-metal HG. Curious to know because I just picked up my stock HG from Toyota today and DAMN! They are proud of those little bastards!
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the newer HG's from toyota are revised and are not the same as they were back in production
 
trydrew

trydrew

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They are revised I believe, but between the head gasket and the head bolts, the bolts (and their torque values) cause the bigger problem. Get some ARP's and itll last as long as you make it, so long as you retorque.
 
johnathan1

johnathan1

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Yea, I believe it was revised... I have a new headgasket and ARP studs torqued to 85 ft/lbs...It has been fine for over a year and 5000 miles @ stock boost, and has had cooling system problems the entire time, and the engine has gotten pretty hot twice, but the head gasket is still fine.
 
gtsfirefighter

gtsfirefighter

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A guy I know who works on Toyotas said torquing over what the engine specs say will mash the gasket. I guess there are plenty of you out there to refute that. I've also noticed that most N/A's I've been around have all blown their head gaskets with over 150k miles on them. That's really not bad I guess. How many of you have reused your stock headbolts and have torqued over what the TSRM calls for. 58 ft lbs correct? Yet another question asked a million times but hey! I'm on a roll here, indulge me.
 
ChadMKIII

ChadMKIII

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Jul 14, 2006
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gtsfirefighter said:
How many of you have reused your stock headbolts and have torqued over what the TSRM calls for. 58 ft lbs correct? Yet another question asked a million times but hey! I'm on a roll here, indulge me.
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Ugh.....don't even remind me.....

My asshat mechanic reused stock bolts (just got the car back from BHG-land a few weeks ago), torqued to 60ftlb, wants to up them to 70....this after I told him to use ARP. I'm in the process of correcting the problem....

EVERYONE I've talked to so far says def don't reuse the bolts, and I would be hesitant about overtorquing them once they've already been torqued to yield.
 
Tanya

Tanya

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Aug 15, 2005
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Yeah I reused my stockers too, only b/c I had no choice. I figured they'd be pretty stretched, so we torqued to 85ft/lbs and it held fine
 
ForcedTorque

ForcedTorque

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gtsfirefighter said:
So does anybody have a set of used ARP bolts?
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That made me think a bit................I have never once seen a used set of ARP's being sold. Maybe that is a major testament to their quality. If NOONE will sell them, it's gotta tell you they must be as good as advertised.

Here's a related question................Can you safely change out your stock bolts to ARP's on a good motor, without changing the gasket? I know, I doubt it, but worth asking I guess.
 
jdub

jdub

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You can re-use ARP studs or bolts...use the ARP spec for the hardware...81 ft/lbs for studs, 75 ft/lbs (aluminum head spec) for bolts...both specs assume using moly for lube. These torque specs apply to both MHG's and stock type composite gaskets. APR recommends a 5 pass loosening/tightening cycle using the TRSM pattern for the most accurate torque reading. Torque to final spec using multiple passes. Do a re-torque after at least 5 heat cycles when using new ARP hardware. You can use a spray sealer if you wish on a composite HG or a used MHG as long as all the old viton seal is removed...never use a sealer on a new MHG.

Once the engine has been heat cycled, I would not change the stock bolts to ARP without changing the HG. Too easy to compromise the seal on either a composite HG or MHG once you loosen the bolts. Just make sure the torque is at 75 ft/lbs on the stock bolts.

While I don't advocate this, the stock head bolts have been re-used many times by many people...the Toyota bolts are excellent quality. Don't torque over 75 ft/lbs. Personally, I would go with the ARP hardware too ;)
 
gtsfirefighter

gtsfirefighter

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jdub said:
You can re-use ARP studs or bolts...use the ARP spec for the hardware...81 ft/lbs for studs, 75 ft/lbs (aluminum head spec) for bolts...both specs assume using moly for lube. These torque specs apply to both MHG's and stock type composite gaskets. APR recommends a 5 pass loosening/tightening cycle using the TRSM pattern for the most accurate torque reading. Torque to final spec using multiple passes. Do a re-torque after at least 5 heat cycles when using new ARP hardware. You can use a spray sealer if you wish on a composite HG or a used MHG as long as all the old viton seal is removed...never use a sealer on a new MHG.

Once the engine has been heat cycled, I would not change the stock bolts to ARP without changing the HG. Too easy to compromise the seal on either a composite HG or MHG once you loosen the bolts. Just make sure the torque is at 75 ft/lbs on the stock bolts.

While I don't advocate this, the stock head bolts have been re-used many times by many people...the Toyota bolts are excellent quality. Don't torque over 75 ft/lbs. Personally, I would go with the ARP hardware too ;)
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Great info, thanks!!
 
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