Another clutch problem thread..

[WhtMa71]

I just finished doing a HG job on my engine and replaced the clutch while the engine was out. Old clutch worked perfectly but just started to slip a little more than I wanted it to (it was time for a new one).
Heres a few pictures of the new clutch.

Just a stock pressure plate with new toyota release and pilot bearings and a custom disc.

So I crank the engine and it runs perfectly, go to shift into gear and it wont go. Can sometimes get it into 3rd or 4th but it's very hard and trying reverse it just grinds. I have bled the system a few times. No leaks from master or slave.
I've checked the pedal and the height is correct. Having a little trouble figuring out the pedal free play and push rod free play as it's a little hard to tell where the freeplay stops and the release beings.

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/manual.aspx?Section=CL&P=3

I got a friend to operate the clutch while I was watching from the inspection panel. The slave, fork, and pressure plate springs all look to be operating normally but I'm not exactly sure how far the travel should be.

Okay, so I though I might have installed the disc in backward. Just loosened the pressure plate and the disc is installed correctly. As you can see the pad is against the flywheel and barely see the kelvar side against the PP. (sorry for the bad pic)

I mean that is correct, right?

Should I try to adjust some preload into the master cyl. rod? (turning clockwise)
Is there something wrong with the disc?
Should I try a new slave or master cyl?
Maybe I just need to fiddle with the pedal more?

I'm about 99% sure I assembled the bearing hub correctly.

Oh on a side note, I hear a little squealing when I push the pedal completely to the floor and stops when I raise up a few mm's. This is with the engine running, of course.

 

[WhtMa71]

Heres a pic of the release bearing hub just for shits..

 

[hvyman]

it does not appear to be bolted down all the way. easiest way to make sure the clutch is in the right way is with the pp off turn the clutch on the flywheel. if it hits the bolts and does not run the easy then its on wrong.

 

[WhtMa71]

It's not bolted down all the way at the moment, actually there are no bolts in it because I was making sure the disc was in the right way. I did spin it and made sure it was right before I put it in but in every thread I've searched the problem ended up being the disc in the wrong way so I figured I'd check to be 100% sure.

 

[Poodles]

I want to say that the throwout bearing assembly isn't assembled right, but I can't remember cleary from memory.

 

[WhtMa71]

^Can anyone confirm this?

I'll probably be dropping the trans this week anyway to tear the release hub assembly apart and be sure I assembled it correctly.

 

[Poodles]

Again, I'm not sure but it looks a bit tall to my eyes. I should have taken pics of when i did mine...

 

[WhtMa71]

Dropped the trans. Haven't really found anything wrong. As far as I can tell I assembled the release hub correctly but here are some pics and if anyone wants to chime in please do.
Kind of hard to tell from the pics but the thrust cone spring has the large end facing the bearing.

Now the only difference I noticed in my old stock clutch and this one is the hub of the old disc is larger(sticks out further on the flywheel side).

New

Old

Also the new disc is actually smaller in diameter than the old disc.

I can also see where the disc was touching the flywheel and can see it on the pads too.

Any ideas? Wrong disc perhaps?

 

[Poodles]

Ok, hub assembly looks fine. Not really sure, but if just the tips of the friction material is touching it looks like it's being warped somehow.

 

[WhtMa71]

Dunno what could be causing that. Both the flywheel and pressure plate surfaces are completely flat according to my straight edge.

Wonder if it could be my slave cylinder but it's not leaking and I don't think it would go bad just from sitting for a month or so. And Like I said, I can see the slave actuating the pressure plate so I don't know what gives.

My only guess now is its the wrong disc..Even though it fits the splines perfectly. Don't think a new OEM pressure plate could be messed up.. I'm stumped.

 

[Poodles]

Could just be the pedal adjustment, but it's definately odd the way it was wearing...

 

[limequat]

Dunno what could be causing that. Both the flywheel and pressure plate surfaces are completely flat according to my straight edge.

Wonder if it could be my slave cylinder but it's not leaking and I don't think it would go bad just from sitting for a month or so. And Like I said, I can see the slave actuating the pressure plate so I don't know what gives.

My only guess now is its the wrong disc..Even though it fits the splines perfectly. Don't think a new OEM pressure plate could be messed up.. I'm stumped.

The only way it could be the disc is if it was way too thick. Is there a thickness spec in the service manual? My money is on the hyraulics. The slave may be actuating, but is it actuating all the way?

For piece of mind, you may want to find another way of actuating the clutch fork. I had a similar problem. Used a come-a-long to push the clutch fork.

 

[WhtMa71]

I measured the disc and it is about 2mm thicker than the old worn out disc. The only thickness spec I found is for rivet depth.

I guess I'll just stick it back together and do what you suggested with a come-along and see if I can get it to release like it should. Maybe the hydraulics did go bad.

 

[gaboonviper85]

The disk is wearing on the outer edges so my guess is this has nothing to do with adjustment or hydrolics....Id like to see what a straightedge will show when set on the flywheel....I'd also like to see the disk resting on the flywheel without the pp....

I'm guessing that maybe they ground way too much material from the flywheel and the spring housings are bottoming out against it causing the disk to bow inwards...maybe I dunno...or they ground the fw with a taper on accident???

 

[WhtMa71]

The car hasn't been driven yet, the mark on the flywheel is just from sitting with the engine running and pushing the clutch in to shift into gear, except for it wont go.

I thought the same thing as you which is why I checked the flywheel flatness. The disc spins freely on the flywheel without touching the bolts. My guess is the marcel springs have something to do with the angle that caused the outside of the pads to touch the FW. When there is pressure on it from the pressure plate I imagine it should flatten the disc out.

I brought a Honda flywheel and this flywheel to the machine shop to get surfaced the same day, both are stepped wheels. The one on the Honda is currently working flawlessly.

But I'm open to any suggestions at the moment..

 

[gaboonviper85]

I'd unbolt the flywheel....put sharpie marker all over the springs....lay disk down on the fw and turn it and see if it's rubbing...

I'm on the same page as you believing it's the springs touching but I'm not 100%..

 

[limequat]

Another act of desparation: put in the old clutch disc and see if it works. Of course that means you'd have to do two more trans jobs at least.
Don't worry, the end is in sight. You'll get it.

 

[WhtMa71]

Another act of desparation: put in the old clutch disc and see if it works. Of course that means you'd have to do two more trans jobs at least.
Don't worry, the end is in sight. You'll get it.

That thought had crossed my mind, just don't know if I want to do 2 more trans jobs.. I'll think it over but might end up doing that..

 

[GrimJack]

Well, on the positive side, you'll end up being able to drop the transmission in record time.

 

[WhtMa71]

I guess it wouldn't be that bad. I'd just have to put a few bolts in the trans(NOT the top two MFers) and put the starter on, trans. crossmember and see if it does it with the stock disc. If it does then I'll know its the hydraulics..