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reincaster

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So, i picked up an 87 Turbo last december, and finally got some time to troubleshoot. It wasn't running, just cranked and cranks, misfired every once in awhile. now, the story is that the PO had bought it a year ago, drove for a month and... BHG :: angry ::

So he ported and polished the head and had new valve seals installed, as verified by the race shop that did it, with receipts as well.

I have done the following:

compression test: All cylinders have compression at 125psi, cold, except cylinder #2. After putting alittle bit of oil in #2 compression was up to 125 as well, so it's probably a bad ring. my leakdown tester has a bad fitting, so I'm waiting to get a new one to check the leakdown results.

CPS: CPS has resistance values within the right range, as specified by the TSRM, air gaps are in spec as well. However, tach doesn't move when cranking, so not sure if that's good or bad. I just remember reading something about that on the boards a week or two ago. CPS is also timed correctly, as stated in the timing article here.

Coil Packs: The coil packs were in bad shape, so I purchased another set with wires and harness from a fellow member on here. I have spark on all wires, bright and blue. I assume this means igniter works as well.

Fuel pump and injectors: Fuel pump pressurizes when jumping B+ and Fp in the diagnostic box, injectors click like they shoould when cranking. Interesting note: Plugs were black but not fouled.

Timing: Stroke timing is correct, When timing mark is at 0, piston is in fact, at TDC, cams line up correctly as well.

AFM: Here's where I got confused, I tested the terminals as mentioned in TSRM, however, something is off. Is there a typo in the TSRM? Is asks to check for resistance values between two terminals, a terminal VS to E1, however, there is no VS in the diagram, so i jusst tested VC to E1. Values are all over the place.

KS to E1 does not show infinite resistance, but something like 700k ohms.
E1 to KS shows 12k ohms, Spec is 5-10k
VS to E1 shows 17k ohms, Spec is 10-15k
E1 to VC : i forgot what it showed but it was above spec, which is 5-12k
THA to E2: Temp at the time was 85 degrees F, and the spec was 1.6k ohms. there is no range close to that, just 68 degrees and 104f degrees. spec at 68 is 2-3k and spec at 104 is 0.9 to 1.3k. I assume that that test is ok, because it falls right in between the spec values for both temperatures.

My speculation: Bad AFM? Everything checks out, although injectors might not be firing correctly. however, since the plugs are new, and fouled from the constant cranking as misfires (not backfiring, just stumbles) I think that the AFM is not sending correct signals to the ECU, and subsequently, wrong amounts of fuel? that's just my speculation though.

Can a bad afm do this?

Sorry for the long read, but I just tried to get as much info as I can.
 

ForcedTorque

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The car will start and run (not very good) with the AFM unplugged. Unplug it, and attempt a start. It may be bad, but may not be the whole problem. Make sure your wiring at the CPS is good. Check your EFI fuse in the engine bay fuse box. A small gas leak can also affect a start. I'd also investigate the reason the tach is not working.
 

reincaster

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So, when cranking the car, the tach should move, right?

I had a suspicion that the cps wasn't time right, as it wasn't even bolted on correctly, so I reset it. Haven't tried it after that, but will do so in the morning. Hopefully it will start after that.
 

jetjock

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Haynes manual? 10 lashes ;)

You're correct about the temp sensor. Test for frequency on Ks referenced to E2 which is sensor ground. I suggest buying a meter that has frequency and duty cycle built in. Even cheapish ones have them these days. Course, nothing beats a scope for this kind of work.

It's highly unlikely his problem is the AFM btw. That said I see no mention of codes...
 

reincaster

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Well, since re aligning the cpsand testing everything, I haven't tried starting the car. As for codes I don't know how to check for codes without a super monitor. My 87 doesn't have one, and I'm about to browse through tsrm and articles
to check for how to read codes.

It may in fact just have been the cps
 

reincaster

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checked the codes, and got a 22 and 24, which deal with water temp sensor and intake air temp sensor. The water temp sensor on there is pretty nasty looking so I replaced it, and cleared the codes. As for intake air temp, which the cygnus link above says is either ecu or AFM (I assume afm because it references terminal THA), is it the AFm itself or something attached to the afm?

Car starts up fairly easily, but usually bogs out the first time, then idles at 1000 before coming down to regular idle. Pressing the throttle causes it to die. If you press it slowly, it revs up, although with a little hesitation. I think this is due to not setting the ignition timing yet. I can keep it revving and it's very smooth, but letting off the throttle causes rpms to drop to 200-300, then back up to idle, or it sputters out.

So, ignition timing will definitely be done tomorrow, but is that the most likely cause? Could it be something else like TPS or vacuum line leak?
 

reincaster

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Excellent info. I knew about e1 and t1, but now I know what that ign terminal is for! Hopefully I just need that and possible tps calibration
 

hvyman

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reincaster;1508574 said:
checked the codes, and got a 22 and 24, which deal with water temp sensor and intake air temp sensor. The water temp sensor on there is pretty nasty looking so I replaced it, and cleared the codes. As for intake air temp, which the cygnus link above says is either ecu or AFM (I assume afm because it references terminal THA), is it the AFm itself or something attached to the afm?

Car starts up fairly easily, but usually bogs out the first time, then idles at 1000 before coming down to regular idle. Pressing the throttle causes it to die. If you press it slowly, it revs up, although with a little hesitation. I think this is due to not setting the ignition timing yet. I can keep it revving and it's very smooth, but letting off the throttle causes rpms to drop to 200-300, then back up to idle, or it sputters out.

So, ignition timing will definitely be done tomorrow, but is that the most likely cause? Could it be something else like TPS or vacuum line leak?

You have symptoms of a bad afm.
 

reincaster

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gaboonviper85;1508842 said:
fyi you cant get an accurate compression test on a cold motor....cylinder 2 rings may be just fine so i wouldnt worry about it.

I know that. However, the car it self did NOT start at all, so the a cold compression test was just to check if I had any compression at all, so I could pinpoint if it was incorrect cam timing, or bad bottom end, because I don't know the entire history of the car. It's nit accurate, but it still can tell you a few things.