IJ.;1325839 said:
ICE and water? Really if you have no practical experience with W2A you should either STFU or do some research.... :nono:
You're thinking af Drag systems that are designed to give sub ambient intake temps this is a road system that at best can maintain ambient and uses a Rad/Fan/Pump to achieve that.
I run an AIT before and after the IC on all of my systems and log the temps so can say 100% for a daily driven car if you exclude the weight/complexity factors W2A shits all over A2A.
Thanks for the advice, no hard feelings, though to help you understand what I have understood from being around professional racers, and just a quick glimps of the internet.. I have copied and pasted what I could quickly find on my short lunch break. Keep in mind no effort putting this in proper order just copied and pasted here it is: Sure thing chef here is a start:
How can an air-to-air intercooler be more efficient than a water based intercooler?
There is an overwhelming quantity of ambient air available to cool an air-to-air core relative to the charge air thru the inside of the intercooler (The iced down water intercooler is the only exception to this argument.). At just 60 mph, with a 300 bhp engine at full tilt, the ambient air available to cool the intercooler is about ten times the amount of charge air needed to make the 300 hp. Whereas the water intercooler largely stores the heat in the water until off throttle allows a reverse exchange. Some heat is expelled from a front water cooler, but the temperature difference between the water and ambient air is not large enough to drive out much heat. Another way to view the situation is that ultimately the heat removed from the air charge must go into the atmosphere regardless of whether it's from an air intercooler or a water based intercooler. The problem with the water intercooler is that the heat has more barriers to cross to reach the atmosphere than the air intercooler. Like it or not, each barrier represents a resistance to the transfer of heat. The net result; more barriers, less heat transfer.
What are the relative merits of an air or water-cooled intercooler and which would suit my purposes best?
This depends on the circumstances. These circumstances are; street use, drag racing, or endurance racing (more than two minutes).
Street use: The air-to-air intercooler will prove superior in efficiency when sized properly.
Drag racing: The short spurt of power allows the iced water to cool the charge air to below ambient temperature.
Endurance racing: The air-to-air intercooler is clearly superior due to the shorter route of getting the heat out of the air charge and into the atmosphere. Endurance racing would preclude the use of ice water, thus negating the singular advantage of the water intercooler. Further, the air-to-air intercooler is (virtually, see comments below) maintenance free.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercooler
Air to Water: [edit] Air-to-liquid intercoolers
Air-to-liquid intercoolers (aka Charge-Air-Coolers) are heat exchangers that transfer intake charge heat to an intermediate fluid, usually water, which finally rejects heat to the air. These systems use radiators in other locations, usually due to space constraints, to reject unwanted heat, similar to an automotive radiator cooling system. Air-to-liquid intercoolers are usually heavier than their air-to-air counterparts due to additional components making up the system (water circulation pump, radiator, fluid, and plumbing). The Toyota Celica GT-Four had this system in the 1988-89 version and also in the Carlos Sainz RC Version.
A big advantage of the air-to-liquid setup is the lower overall pipe and intercooler length, which offers faster response (lowers turbo lag)[citation needed], giving peak boost faster than most front-mount intercooler setups. Some setups can use reservoirs that can have ice put into it for intake temperatures lower than ambient air, giving a big advantage (but of course, ice would need constant replacement).
Ohh and even better there is this article!!!!
http://www.freeengineinfo.com/intercooler-1.htm
Intercoolers have been used on turbocharged and supercharged engines for quite some time now. When used on a supercharged engine they are often called after coolers. Turbos are the most common usage for intercoolers though. Any engine that uses an air-compressing device such as superchargers and turbos can benefit from intercoolers. When the air gets compressed it can heat up dramatically, up to 300 degrees F. This dramatically reduces the compressed air density and limits the maximum boost. The high intake temperatures can increase the chance of detonation in the engine, causing major engine damage. An intercooler can fix this problem.
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Intercoolers are designed to cool down the heated intake air that comes from the compressor. Intercoolers are generally made in two different designs. The first and most popular type is the air to air and the other type is the air to water intercooler. There are a few alternative ways to cool the air, which I will discuss at the end. The air to air has been most extensively used on mass production vehicles. They are similar to an engine’s radiator, and do a similar task. They are carefully designed to have smooth airflow inside as to not restrict the engine’s airflow. Outside the air moves across the aluminum fins and strips away the hot air. One of the biggest design constraints of an intercooler is the internal volume and cross sectional density. The more volume the intercooler has, the more turbo “lag” an engine will have. The “lag” simply means the delay time between when the gas pedal is pressed and the turbo starts to build considerable boost. Unfortunately you cannot simply reduce the volume for two reasons. One, the cross sectional area must diminish, meaning less area for air to move across the fins. This could be accomplished with a thicker intercooler but then the air is already heat soaked by the time it reaches the back. The second reason is that the air has to be spread out through “tubes” crossing the intercooler. If there are not enough “tubes” the area becomes too small, and the boost is significantly reduced. Up to three psi of loss is standard on an intercooler. If you were to simply increase the diameter of the tubes, it would not be enough as the air in the center of the tube can’t release it’s heat into the tube wall. Most factory-installed intercoolers are smaller to avoid high cost and turbo lag. That is why many people install larger intercoolers especially if their turbo boost has been increased. Another aftermarket alternative in air-to-air intercoolers is to spray water, with a remote valve, onto the intercooler. The Subaru Impreza WRX STI uses this with their front air cooler. The water transfers heat better than air and also helps cool as it evaporates off the intercooler. Speaking of better thermal conductivity (heat transfer) the air to water intercooler was designed exactly for this reason. It works in the same way an air cooler works internally. The outer of the water to air is covered in a “box” which circulates water around the internal “tubes” that run to the intake. The water cooler can have the same amount amount of air flow with a much smaller volume. This is because the heat conducts or moves into the water much easier. The heated water then moves through a pump and circulates through a small separate radiator. Drag racers like this type because they can add a container of water inline and place ice in it before going down the track. This dramatically lowers the temperature. Another advantage is that the intercooler can be much smaller and can be placed anywhere. It doesn’t need to be placed in front of the radiator to be cooled as the air type does. Also it doesn’t need the large volume tubes that connect it to the front of the car. Some disadvantages would include price, which can be almost double an air-to-air intercooler. Another problem would be heat saturation. If you continued to accelerate the water will eventually retain some of the heat and takes a little longer to cool it off. This is due to the volume of water being used. Alternative intake air-cooling without adding volume can be accomplished, but is usually not as effective. Actually nitrous can significantly lower the temperature as it evaporates and decompresses, but is generally not used with a turbo because the tuning can get very tricky. Fuel supply and timing has to be exact or you will damage the engine. Another way to cool the engine is to spray alcohol into the intake air. This has the advantage of making the mixture slightly richer. It is not dangerous because it doesn’t require more fuel like nos. Although it doesn’t produce nearly as much power as nitrous, it is safe. It cools the air by evaporating and usually allows a few more psi of turbo boost.
Remember, however, that an air-to-air intercooler will only cool the air charge down to ambient air temperature. So, if the outside temperature is 110F just off the asphalt roadway, this may be as cool as your air charge will get - and that's why race applications use liquid-to-air intercoolers! Thanks for your time I.J. and you supoprt :icon_bigg
