8 cranks to start when 1/2 warm: fact of life?
- Thread starter MK3pizzadriver
- Start date
cold start injector switch, or the injector its self is going bad or you have really bad compression check that stuff on your own 1st
Pull ECU codes.
Next time it does it, wiggle the CPS wires while a helper cranks.
To test what Zum said, pull the vac line off the FPR and crank...the VSV opens to atmosphere to increase FP for a hot start.
Next time it does it, wiggle the CPS wires while a helper cranks.
To test what Zum said, pull the vac line off the FPR and crank...the VSV opens to atmosphere to increase FP for a hot start.
My 92 NA does this as well...if I turn it on when I get off of work (about 12 hours), it'll struggle to start and cranks atleast 6 times. However letting it sit overnight (about 8 hours, but it does get cold), it'll start up almost immediately, almost scares me sometimes (my 89 sometimes starts up at one crank!), so ill look into the VSV mentioned earlier...
P.s. please stop driving a 92 turbo as a pizza car, they're the rarest MKIII's!
P.s. please stop driving a 92 turbo as a pizza car, they're the rarest MKIII's!
my car does something diff when cold i can crank it the first no matter how many times wont start do it the 2nd time starts right up 1-2nd crank...
You don't want to leave the FPR unplugged...it's only a test. Leaving it unplugged would defeat the 1:1 FP rise with boost...not good.
Make sure you've got the right connector orientation, if you test it the wrong way, you can be reading two of the pickup coils at once, rather than one. Also, I've got slightly different specs vs cygnus, but if you measured them correctly, they are all out of spec. Time for a new CPS.
For a 1992 Supra turbo, I've got 185-265 ohms at 14-104 deg.F For specs.
NE is light blue, G1 is red, G- is black, and G2 is yellow. That's what a dealer tech will be looking for.
For a 1992 Supra turbo, I've got 185-265 ohms at 14-104 deg.F For specs.
NE is light blue, G1 is red, G- is black, and G2 is yellow. That's what a dealer tech will be looking for.
I'm a dealer tech, so I have access to Toyota's Technical Insofmation System (TIS). The signal generator specs change from year to year- I compared it to my 91 TSRM and they are differant. my 91:205-255ohms, your 1992:185-265ohms. I would guess that cygnus has an older vehicle on file, thus the inconsistancy. Toyota tries to give its technicians the best/most acurate info possible, but the techs have to know what they're looking for in order to find it- an area that many dealers struggle with when dealing with these old cars. Most guys don't like diagnosing (or even working on) old cars because it's hard work and can be extremely frustrating.
And yes, there are 2 sensors for the EFI and cold-start systems. If the cold-start timer switch fails, the car will be rather hard to start when it's cold but easy when it's warm, just like Tajabaho1 was describing. I had it happen on my 89 MR2 and it sucked to start in the winter, not too bad in the summer. That would not cause a hot-start/heatsoak problem though.
If the readings you got from your CPS are accurate I would very strongly suspect the CPS. When the pickup coils get warm/hot, their resistance goes up. So if they are already high in resistance, I wouldn't be surprised if the resistance skyrocketed after you run the car and then shut it down. (engine heat starts making its way into those coils aka Heatsoak). Then you go to start, there is too much resistance to create a clean signal and send it to the computer. Make sure those readings you have are accurate, it's a spendy part to "throw" at the car. Good luck!
Edit: make sure you wiggle the cps wires (as Jdub suggested), but do it as you test the resistance of the pickup coils. If the wires get corroded or break that can also lead to strange issues. If that is an issue, the resistance will change as you move them around.
And yes, there are 2 sensors for the EFI and cold-start systems. If the cold-start timer switch fails, the car will be rather hard to start when it's cold but easy when it's warm, just like Tajabaho1 was describing. I had it happen on my 89 MR2 and it sucked to start in the winter, not too bad in the summer. That would not cause a hot-start/heatsoak problem though.
If the readings you got from your CPS are accurate I would very strongly suspect the CPS. When the pickup coils get warm/hot, their resistance goes up. So if they are already high in resistance, I wouldn't be surprised if the resistance skyrocketed after you run the car and then shut it down. (engine heat starts making its way into those coils aka Heatsoak). Then you go to start, there is too much resistance to create a clean signal and send it to the computer. Make sure those readings you have are accurate, it's a spendy part to "throw" at the car. Good luck!
Edit: make sure you wiggle the cps wires (as Jdub suggested), but do it as you test the resistance of the pickup coils. If the wires get corroded or break that can also lead to strange issues. If that is an issue, the resistance will change as you move them around.
i don't know about you guys but if the guy bringin me pizza drove up in a mk3 i would give him a BIG tip!
RazoE;1411159 said:
As long as he leaves it running on deliveries it shouldnt be an issue. Now if he was shutting it off, that would be an issue.
ATL88Supra;1417093 said:
Hell yeah!
MK3pizzadriver;1417191 said:
Stay away from the stealership. Just because they cost more doesnt mean they know what they are doing. DIY man, its the supra way of life. Theres a write up on this in articles as well as a spreadsheet you can use.
MK3pizzadriver;1417191 said:
Use the turbo timer man, if you cant get it to work buy another one (i just got an HKS type 0 and PNP harness for like 100 bucks from nippon power) IMO always give it at least 3 minutes. Better safe than sorry. You would be surpised with how much of a difference it can make to turbo temps. While your delivering pizzas just leave it running.
I thought it would do that. Heatsoak is taking the pickup coils out of spec *edit- not out of spec, just higher resistance*, but not so far as I would have expected to cause this kind of starting issue. Oil in the CPS can cause the insulation for the pickup coils and the wires going to them to break down and cause funny resistance changes, it also makes the wire insulation brittle and easily cracked.
You are also correct on the cold-start timer switch. When the engine is warm, the cold start injector doesn't need to fire, so it should be open when warm. It should be closed when the engine id dead. If your is staying closed all the time, it will be running crazy rich on warm startups... it's worth checking.
The Bimetal vacuum switching valve BVSV is the snesor with the vacuum tubes going to it, and its function is to purge the charcoal canister when the engine is warm. When cold, there shouldn't be flow through it, when warm, it should open up.
Hopefully the dealer will find something earthshaking. Good luck either way, though.
You are also correct on the cold-start timer switch. When the engine is warm, the cold start injector doesn't need to fire, so it should be open when warm. It should be closed when the engine id dead. If your is staying closed all the time, it will be running crazy rich on warm startups... it's worth checking.
The Bimetal vacuum switching valve BVSV is the snesor with the vacuum tubes going to it, and its function is to purge the charcoal canister when the engine is warm. When cold, there shouldn't be flow through it, when warm, it should open up.
Hopefully the dealer will find something earthshaking. Good luck either way, though.
Last edited:
im fighting a similar issue on my car and it makes owning it pointless since when I turn it off that I have to let it cool all the way down before I can drive it again. Mine will not start at all when it it get to operating temp. At first it was just occasionally and now its everytime. Im wanting to blame my CPS because im sure its getting wet inside and jiggling the wires used to solve the problem but not anymore.:cry: Know its gonna cost allot to replace to...
my 88 developed this problem also. i replace the cold start in...put new ngk iridium plugs and ngk wires...then put my blitz tt in and it seemed to fix the problem. i used to get a blueish/purplish puff of smoke after it finally started after the long cranks too!
hope you get it fugured out...good luck
hope you get it fugured out...good luck
Are you applying pressure to it, or vacuum?
Try using a clear hose on your hand pump, start the engine, and check to see if fuel is leaking through into the line to your pump.
Try using a clear hose on your hand pump, start the engine, and check to see if fuel is leaking through into the line to your pump.
Putting in a fuel pressure gauge is simple... disconnect the line to the cold start injector and put a gauge in place instead. Takes literally minutes.