7MGTE build need input

MK3er

New Member
Jan 1, 2010
58
0
0
Ohio
Yes boys and girls its time for me to start my first 7mgte build.
The Car: 1986.5 Supra bought in columbus in beautiful condition
Specs: Waiting on dyno. Stock with every reciept since window sticker including about $3000 worth of parts replaced a month befor i picked her up.
The Build: 7MGTE block rebuild using stock rebalanced crank, stage 2 cams, new valves springs and rockers, forged pistons, 550 rc injectors, walpro fuel pump, port and polished heads, and still looking for the right turbo but looking into T4. And of course replace all seals and gaskets using metal with arp studs.

I think i have all the major parts listed im shooting for around 350 hp. Ive already bought almost all the electronics from BKcressida. Would like your guys opinion on my setup.

Pics:
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18874_251498235893_699910893_3852637_5044041_n.jpg
 

ben1984j

New Member
Jan 18, 2009
159
0
0
Ft. Collins, CO
-Forged pistons and T4 turbo are nice but neither are really necessary for your power goals...
-Lexus AFM to go with those 550's
-Clutch upgrade probably a good idea at this point
 

Victor Charlie

Supramania Contributor
Aug 18, 2009
161
0
0
Ann Arbor
I imagine you can hit your goal much less expensively, but then you won't be ready for your next goal when you get bored with 350rwhp. There is an advantage to modest HP goals in reliability, tuning the power and torque curves to best driveability, fuel economy, and low turbo lag. Maybe you should give us a better idea of what the car will be used for. It's a beautiful body, but that's only lust, true love is about the relationship.

I would think the basics are unrestricted air flow, so naturally new intake/filter, lexus AFM, downpipe that replaces the turbo elbow, high flow CAT or test pipe, catback setup. This will make you not-street legal. If you were in MI there is no inspection, so you can get away with anything. In Ohio, I don't know. You need to get the whole airflow path clear before worrying about your head. You need to plan your exhaust manifold/turbo/downpipe together, since they need to mate up. you can hit your goals with stock turbo and manifold, and good downpipe back, which I have, but I wish I had a way to relieve back pressure above a certain level with a pressure sensitive exhaust valve that vented to an open pipe leading under the car, like the downpipes for the external wastegate setups. I think that would let the car really scream and boost when you stomp on it hard, but still allow normal flow through the cat and muffler in normal driving. Just an example of how little decisions now become unexpected limitations later when you are not realistic about your own power lust. Hardpipes and a new intercooler are easy to add later and not necessary for your goals.

Once you have the intake and exhaust paths clear you will need to do the head gasket. That is the absolute before you can get to substantial power. That's when it will be tempting to take out the motor and rebuild everything. You don't have to do this to meet your power goals. You get the most power per dollar from boosting on the stock turbo. A simple manual boost controller via adjustable bleeder valve is a cheap way to experiment, and you can add fancy electronics later. Combine boost with Lexus AFM and 550 injectors is a well traveled path that works well. You can boost from stock (7-9 by various sources, I've never driven an unboosted supra, so I don't know), to about 12-14 before you need to deal with fuel cut, then start talking about piggyback electronics and new fuel pump and regulator to get a bit higher before you are just blowing hot air from your compressor without further air density gains.

All this will get you well past your goal, without a new turbo, touching the bottom end at all, or even reworking the head (but then where's the fun in that?). And you can do all this for about the same as properly rebuilding the engine.

If you just have to tear that engine apart and rebuild it, do it right the first time, if you have the experience and skill, or have the bottom end done in a shop, or exchange it for a rebuilt one. The head is easy to work on later, but pulling the engine is a lot more grunt work and more risk of scratching or denting that lovely body. In retrospect, I really wish I had done upgraded rods, pistons, rings, rather than just regrinding the crank, cleaning the pistons, and doing new bearings. it would have cost another $1500-2000 for new stuff, but I've seen people selling unused rods and pistons when they abandoned their projects. In fact, i'm going to tear the whole thing apart again to do it right. If your bottom end is good, why not leave it alone and do the easy stuff until something wears out or breaks? In the mean time you can watch for good deals on the quality parts for the full rebuild. Or just find a built engine and sell yours ($ smart, but totally lame, IMO).
 

MK3er

New Member
Jan 1, 2010
58
0
0
Ohio
i guess i left this out. the car is current na and im gonna do a 7mgte swap. im buing all the parts then building the motor on a stand. After i get it done im gonna take it to a engine dyno at my school. I go to Lincoln technical institute in indianapolis so all tools and help i can get free and free dyno pulls. And I plan on doing what you wanted to do with yours by building it right the first time.
 

Victor Charlie

Supramania Contributor
Aug 18, 2009
161
0
0
Ann Arbor
MK3er;1493357 said:
i guess i left this out. the car is current na and im gonna do a 7mgte swap. im buing all the parts then building the motor on a stand. After i get it done im gonna take it to a engine dyno at my school. I go to Lincoln technical institute in indianapolis so all tools and help i can get free and free dyno pulls. And I plan on doing what you wanted to do with yours by building it right the first time.

That will be a nice car. Sounds like you're from Dublin, not Columbus!
Drive carefully.
 

Enraged

A HG job took HOW long??
Mar 30, 2005
1,845
24
38
Victoria, BC, Canada
with 550s, forged pistons, and a T4 turbo, aim for 400+ rwhp. It will all come down to tuning. I would suggest a Maft Pro running speed density. And don't forget a new fuel pump (walbro or similar).

And I agree, needs a drop, and some non-stock wheels.
 

Bomberillo

Banned
Nov 14, 2008
141
0
0
Lynwood
nick88;1493285 said:
Slam that bitch.

x2 Slam that bitch to the ground.
On a more serious note, the car looks really good. Is it a five speed or an auto. It sound like you got a good deal. It already has forged pistons and a rebuild and no bhg. Make sure the head was torqued properly and let her rip. Also, I would recommend going T4 but its alot of work. Just make sure you have all the components before you start to remove stuff and have a sitting car like alot of us on here.:icon_wink
Edit; just saw the 350hp power goal. You would be good with just a bolt on.
 

MK3er

New Member
Jan 1, 2010
58
0
0
Ohio
Good guess but im acutaly from Upper Arlington :/ i just got exaust manifold, ecu, harness, oil pump, BOV, 3000 pipe, intercooler piping, turbo elbow, and throttle body from an 88 gte. Question, if im looking at 400+ will i need new pistons or will stock handle it, and im looking into an aluminum 1 piece to replace my drive shaft would this one be a good choice?
 

Victor Charlie

Supramania Contributor
Aug 18, 2009
161
0
0
Ann Arbor
MK3er;1494703 said:
Good guess but im acutaly from Upper Arlington :/ i just got exaust manifold, ecu, harness, oil pump, BOV, 3000 pipe, intercooler piping, turbo elbow, and throttle body from an 88 gte. Question, if im looking at 400+ will i need new pistons or will stock handle it, and im looking into an aluminum 1 piece to replace my drive shaft would this one be a good choice?

I have no personal experience with drive shafts or forged pistons, sorry. FWIW, I've seen reports of over 500HP on stock pistons. I did do a turbo conversion. My stupid mistake thread is going now, so I'm not ashamed to say I'm a novice, but I did do the chase of getting all the little parts you need. The cheapest and fastest way to do it is to get a trashed turbo model that hasn't been plundered for parts and still runs, think under $1000, and use it for parts. you can probably replace or bypass what you end up taking off it, and sell it for close to what you bought it for, and it allows you to test parts, see how things hook up, etc. There are countless times I had to do that. For example, throttle linkage - lots of variations, engine harness, preferably the same year, trans and motor. Ecu to match harness, intercooler of course. Possibly power steering pulley and belt, depending on what you swap, various electrical relays were a little different for me, accelerator cable was different for me.

Some of my problems were due to using a JDM motor, so it may not all apply, but the point is, you can't anticipate everything, so investing in a parts car is well worth it, if you can store it somewhere. Come to think of it, it's a good thing you aren't in Dublin....
 

MK3er

New Member
Jan 1, 2010
58
0
0
Ohio
well ive already spent all my money on parts for the swap and parts cars are becoming harder to come by. I kinda wanted to do the swap like this so i wouldnt have any car sitting for longer then the time it takes for old motor out new in because i dont have anywhere to let a car sit. And i wanted the joy of sitting in my living room and rebuilding the motor when i was bored. As well im not a very good salesmen so i would probibly end up losing money trying to sell extra parts i dont need.
 

Victor Charlie

Supramania Contributor
Aug 18, 2009
161
0
0
Ann Arbor
MK3er;1494734 said:
well ive already spent all my money on parts for the swap and parts cars are becoming harder to come by. I kinda wanted to do the swap like this so i wouldnt have any car sitting for longer then the time it takes for old motor out new in because i dont have anywhere to let a car sit. And i wanted the joy of sitting in my living room and rebuilding the motor when i was bored. As well im not a very good salesmen so i would probibly end up losing money trying to sell extra parts i dont need.

You need to have budget and goals be compatible. If you've spent your money on parts, you won't finish quickly, maybe never, because you will need more parts. No way to anticipate everything in advance. If you asked, "what can I do with x amount of dollars?" I think you would have gotten different answers to your previous questions. A turbo swap budget and parts list is floating around. I think it was $2000 in parts for turning a non-turbo to a turbo for an experienced mechanic. I swapped the whole engine, which I had rebuilt, which is different in method but not much different in cost. Seriously reconsider before you tear that thing apart, or there will be another parts car on the market in a few years. You need at least a little money in the bank or friends who own a supra shop or import car junkyard to complete the swap. I said it would be cheaper to have a parts car, not just that it would be easier.
 

ohiosupramst

New Member
Aug 31, 2009
138
0
0
Cincinnati
Most people go to forged pistons for anything above 450whp. The stock 3000 pipe is a real restrictor you probably will want to go to aluminum piping vs. the stock piping. A sp61 turbo is a good turbo 450whp they sell them on sound performance.
 

zdatsupra

New Member
Feb 19, 2006
69
0
0
florida
Victor Charlie;1493328 said:
I imagine you can hit your goal much less expensively, but then you won't be ready for your next goal when you get bored with 350rwhp. There is an advantage to modest HP goals in reliability, tuning the power and torque curves to best driveability, fuel economy, and low turbo lag. Maybe you should give us a better idea of what the car will be used for. It's a beautiful body, but that's only lust, true love is about the relationship.

I would think the basics are unrestricted air flow, so naturally new intake/filter, lexus AFM, downpipe that replaces the turbo elbow, high flow CAT or test pipe, catback setup. This will make you not-street legal. If you were in MI there is no inspection, so you can get away with anything. In Ohio, I don't know. You need to get the whole airflow path clear before worrying about your head. You need to plan your exhaust manifold/turbo/downpipe together, since they need to mate up. you can hit your goals with stock turbo and manifold, and good downpipe back, which I have, but I wish I had a way to relieve back pressure above a certain level with a pressure sensitive exhaust valve that vented to an open pipe leading under the car, like the downpipes for the external wastegate setups. I think that would let the car really scream and boost when you stomp on it hard, but still allow normal flow through the cat and muffler in normal driving. Just an example of how little decisions now become unexpected limitations later when you are not realistic about your own power lust. Hardpipes and a new intercooler are easy to add later and not necessary for your goals.

Once you have the intake and exhaust paths clear you will need to do the head gasket. That is the absolute before you can get to substantial power. That's when it will be tempting to take out the motor and rebuild everything. You don't have to do this to meet your power goals. You get the most power per dollar from boosting on the stock turbo. A simple manual boost controller via adjustable bleeder valve is a cheap way to experiment, and you can add fancy electronics later. Combine boost with Lexus AFM and 550 injectors is a well traveled path that works well. You can boost from stock (7-9 by various sources, I've never driven an unboosted supra, so I don't know), to about 12-14 before you need to deal with fuel cut, then start talking about piggyback electronics and new fuel pump and regulator to get a bit higher before you are just blowing hot air from your compressor without further air density gains.

All this will get you well past your goal, without a new turbo, touching the bottom end at all, or even reworking the head (but then where's the fun in that?). And you can do all this for about the same as properly rebuilding the engine.

If you just have to tear that engine apart and rebuild it, do it right the first time, if you have the experience and skill, or have the bottom end done in a shop, or exchange it for a rebuilt one. The head is easy to work on later, but pulling the engine is a lot more grunt work and more risk of scratching or denting that lovely body. In retrospect, I really wish I had done upgraded rods, pistons, rings, rather than just regrinding the crank, cleaning the pistons, and doing new bearings. it would have cost another $1500-2000 for new stuff, but I've seen people selling unused rods and pistons when they abandoned their projects. In fact, i'm going to tear the whole thing apart again to do it right. If your bottom end is good, why not leave it alone and do the easy stuff until something wears out or breaks? In the mean time you can watch for good deals on the quality parts for the full rebuild. Or just find a built engine and sell yours ($ smart, but totally lame, IMO).

you can save a ton of money by buying peoples abondoned parts,
how true is this?
I will be posting a for sale ad soon, long block with cp pistons and eagle rods, toyota bearings, rebalanced. mhg etc.
All , probably for the price of the rods and pistons.
Do a search for my name in the next few weeks.
I will be posting a for sale ad for everything but will probably end up parting out..
 

MK3er

New Member
Jan 1, 2010
58
0
0
Ohio
well my supras my daily right now. its running beautifuly so buying parts i cant use isnt a problem. im buying everything i need for the swap minus what i will be upgrading. The parts list that is floating around is somewhat incomplete. I know everything i need as far as the metal materials but im still a bit lost on what sensors/electronics i will need. If im not mistaken... and correct me if im wrong the only sensors i need that i cant use from my 7MGE are HAC sensor, CPS, the 2 knock sensors, and igniter(already have coilpack).

Edit: Zdatsupra-im interested in your long block but your in Florida and i dont feel like paying as much for shipping as the actual parts sorry
 

zdatsupra

New Member
Feb 19, 2006
69
0
0
florida
MK3er;1494768 said:
Edit: Zdatsupra-im interested in your long block but your in Florida and i dont feel like paying as much for shipping as the actual parts sorry

Not a problem, Im actually teetering on selling the whole car vs parting it out.

For your electronics question.
If I were you and your kind of starting from scratch on a turbo swap. I would not even bother trying to swap a old heat dried harness with fragile connectors etc and then deal with figuring out a stock computer.
If your funds allow, look into a stand alone system.
The maftpro mentioned works great if you have a good factory base, thats what I had until we started troubleshooting factory electronics... gave up and bought a megasquirt with edis.
If I part out, will have one of those too.
 

MK3er

New Member
Jan 1, 2010
58
0
0
Ohio
im new to the idea of stand alone systems. Would it completely replace my ecu and what would you recomend i do instead of buying a heat dried harness

Edit: To help aim this thread in the right direction im looking at spending around $3-4k on driveline and included elctronics.
 
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