7MGE air intake help
- Thread starter ryansmith
- Start date
Yeah what is going on with this thread, haha I'm just after some help but I think I've figured out how I will do this.
Yes this is the GE section, Thanks for all the help but any more suggestions please keep them coming
Yes this is the GE section, Thanks for all the help but any more suggestions please keep them coming
Just some food for thought...
I've seen actual numbers posted for with/without the intake resonator. Anyone who says that it's "just to reduce noise" hasn't done the measurements. There is a gain in power from having the resonator and stock piping vs mandrel bent metal piping. There's even some good physics as to WHY. Maybe it also reduces noise, but that's no bad thing, to me.
Also, last time I checked, metal is a much better conductor of heat than plastic. Therefore having metal piping over the exhaust manifold would seem to me that it would conduct heat to the intake air stream more efficiently than the stock plastic piping. Therefore all else being equal, the air in the intake manifold would be hotter with metal intake plumbing than plastic.
This does not mean that I'm a fan of the plastic piping, but I never saw the intake plumbing as the barrier to more power on my 7M-GE.
I've seen actual numbers posted for with/without the intake resonator. Anyone who says that it's "just to reduce noise" hasn't done the measurements. There is a gain in power from having the resonator and stock piping vs mandrel bent metal piping. There's even some good physics as to WHY. Maybe it also reduces noise, but that's no bad thing, to me.
Also, last time I checked, metal is a much better conductor of heat than plastic. Therefore having metal piping over the exhaust manifold would seem to me that it would conduct heat to the intake air stream more efficiently than the stock plastic piping. Therefore all else being equal, the air in the intake manifold would be hotter with metal intake plumbing than plastic.
This does not mean that I'm a fan of the plastic piping, but I never saw the intake plumbing as the barrier to more power on my 7M-GE.
Dan_Gyoba;1870909 said:
I did a lot of reading up on that resonator before I took the risk of removing it. (I also kept it in case I did notice a significant loss in power). I decided to try swapping it out with a 3" pipe with a much more gentle bend before the TB and it performs pretty much the same, maybe pulls slightly better in the top end. It completely cured my warm/hot start rough idle problem and completely eliminated some detonation on throttle tip-in off idle. There also used to be some very slight flat spots in the power band which also disappeared. So for fixing those issues and delivering a smoother power band, in my case, it made an improvement and was definitely worth changing it. That is also why I made the claim that it's mainly for making the intake sound quieter.
I'm not saying the resonator did nothing for performance, but I am saying my engine seems to run much better with the setup I have now.
Dan_Gyoba;1870909 said:
That is why I have said multiple times (and it's even in the pic I posted on the first page) I heat wrapped the pipe. It makes a HUGE difference as with just the bare pipe, yes it did get extremely hot. So hot I could barely touch it for one second on the top side (away from the exhaust). With the heat wrap, the pipe is lukewarm and I can easily wrap my whole hand under the exhaust side of the pipe and hold it indefinitely. If the pipe is isolated by rubber couplers at each end and is shielded well from radiating heat as well as having relatively cool air pass through it from the filter/AFM, then it shouldn't (and won't) get that hot at all.
Look, I've measured the temp of the cast aluminium intake and the intake ducting. Unless you can somehow reduce the heat in the cast parts, you are wasting your time trying to reduce heat. The cast parts run significantly hotter than the ducting. And to be honest, we are talking about a 1% horsepower improvement for every 10f you can reduce the air temp. So if you are lucky, you will see a 2% gain.
Unless you are measuring intake temps at the head port, you have no idea what is going on. If you are cooling the intake duct, that's great. The cast parts are just putting the heat right back in!
So, instead of throwing shit at people trying to make a point with facts... just because it doesn't suit your tinfoil hat internet BS "cuz it makez moar powah" theories, how about trying to learn for yourself and analyse the problems, rather than being blind little sheep?
Unless you are measuring intake temps at the head port, you have no idea what is going on. If you are cooling the intake duct, that's great. The cast parts are just putting the heat right back in!
So, instead of throwing shit at people trying to make a point with facts... just because it doesn't suit your tinfoil hat internet BS "cuz it makez moar powah" theories, how about trying to learn for yourself and analyse the problems, rather than being blind little sheep?
I took fluid dynamics and all that fun stuff in college for mechanical engineering, so I'm not pulling this stuff out of thin air (or off of google...lol).
I know the TB and IM get hot. Don't forget the air is traveling through the intake tract very quickly, which doesn't leave a lot of time for heat transfer. The less time the air spends exposed to this heat, the less it will absorb. So if the air is significantly cooler to begin with by the time it reaches the TB/IM then that will reduce the overall IAT's by the time it reaches the port.
As far as real world testing I have personally done in this regard my GE runs significantly better than it did before. That is an improvement that would correlate to your predicted 2% gain. Sure, it's not a lot, but I wasn't just looking for or expecting a huge performance gain when I changed my intake anyways.
Bottom line; if done right, it makes a small difference and can cost next to nothing to do. If someone wants to change their GE intake (for whatever reason), let them do it. If they don't, so be it.
I know the TB and IM get hot. Don't forget the air is traveling through the intake tract very quickly, which doesn't leave a lot of time for heat transfer. The less time the air spends exposed to this heat, the less it will absorb. So if the air is significantly cooler to begin with by the time it reaches the TB/IM then that will reduce the overall IAT's by the time it reaches the port.
As far as real world testing I have personally done in this regard my GE runs significantly better than it did before. That is an improvement that would correlate to your predicted 2% gain. Sure, it's not a lot, but I wasn't just looking for or expecting a huge performance gain when I changed my intake anyways.
Bottom line; if done right, it makes a small difference and can cost next to nothing to do. If someone wants to change their GE intake (for whatever reason), let them do it. If they don't, so be it.
Put it this way, I just need an alternative pipe setup and pod filter as right now it's been modified by the previouse owner and it's been done pretty bad.
I'm going to go for alloy pipe and a new filter.
Yes I've read everything here but it's going off topic a little bit.
Everything said counts though just needed a good setup from others experiance
I'm going to go for alloy pipe and a new filter.
Yes I've read everything here but it's going off topic a little bit.
Everything said counts though just needed a good setup from others experiance
If you want a slightly better estimate, use this calculator for impact of temp/humidity etc.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/relhumhpcalc.html
http://www.csgnetwork.com/relhumhpcalc.html
Where is the dyno sheet to back this up? Timeslips? Placebo effect is alive and well. I never trust subjective measurements, even my own. Because it "feels like" it pulls harder doesn't mean that it does. It might sound louder, or maybe you just think that it SHOULD pull harder, and so that's what you feel. In any event the "seat-o-the-pants" meter isn't a valid measurement for any performance gain.MPR;1870930 said:
Ultimately though the "bang for the buck" of intake upgrades on the 7M-GE is very low. Personally, I wouldn't worry about the intake plumbing until after getting rid of the flapper AFM, which does impose a very real restriction on the intake.
Dan_Gyoba;1871087 said:
With a gtech pro it showed a small improvement in 1/4 mile time on the same stretch of road, same air temp, humidity (same day). I don't remember the exact numbers as it was a while ago now. But I did test it objectively, not just by feel. It's an older gtech which cannot print out dyno sheets, unfortunately.
We street tuned our competition turbo MR2, it never saw a dyno. I would drive and my friend would tune on the laptop in the passenger seat. I would do pulls through 3rd and 4th gear and I could literally "feel" the flat spots (even very minor ones) where it was not optimal. Upon calling them out, my friend would confirm "yeah it went a little lean/rich at that rpm for a moment." and he would adjust accordingly, and we would repeat. We also would compare data logs looking at the time vs speed to see if we were actually making improvements, which we were.
I'm aware of the psychological effect of "if it sounds better - it must be faster". I was skeptical, I did test for an objective improvement (which the gtech showed) and as a matter of fact (as I have explained several times over) it cured other various issues the engine had and it now runs, overall, much better, all the time. Idling perfectly smooth at 6-700rpm compared to chugging and struggling to stay running at less than 400rpm, is an objective improvement. So is the complete elimination of the tip-in detonation it used to have.
I'm not a young kid in his first car who thinks his new short ram intake just added 20hp because it sounds hella-loud now. lol.
The sound is irrelevant to performance. I enjoy cars and the sounds they make, thus, I wanted to hear my 7m as well as make it run better.
Typhoon;1870945 said:
I, for one, would appreciate seeing your intake temps at the head port. Could you make that data available?
3p141592654;1871163 said:
On Ford EEC-IV systems, it was in the lower manifold right above the valve in some applications. I don't recall info off the top of my head.
Glad I found this thread! Previous owner put a KN intake with the open element filter sitting right next to the radiator end tank and a small diameter tube where the resonator sits. I went ahead and scavenged a whole stock unit and threw that on instead. Good to hear the stock intake for the GE is pretty optimal.
Something came across my mind today what is stopping me from making a custom manifold and coming out the opposite side from the headers and not going across the cam covers?
Other than having to re locate a few things such as the battery and so on.
Other than having to re locate a few things such as the battery and so on.
Yeah the same with throttle bodies I assume ?
Guess I need to make sure I'm staying 7m, pretty sure I will be as it's enough power for me. Also insurance would be impossible otherwise plus it's my DD, fuel is a factor also.
Guess I need to make sure I'm staying 7m, pretty sure I will be as it's enough power for me. Also insurance would be impossible otherwise plus it's my DD, fuel is a factor also.
Can someone run through what needs to be done in order to loose the AFM, and advantages and disadvantages?
Thanks
Thanks
There are several available MAF conversions. Replace the AFM with a hotwire MAF or the like.
Advantage: Less restriction on the intake. More power.
Disadvantage: Not much more power. Bang for the buck factor is quite low.
Much better if you couple it with a header and larger exhaust.
Advantage: Less restriction on the intake. More power.
Disadvantage: Not much more power. Bang for the buck factor is quite low.
Much better if you couple it with a header and larger exhaust.