7M or 1JZ?

[psifactor]

It depends what your looking for too me there just about even

7m- ALot easyer and cheaper too find parts for but must be babied

1j-not as easy too find parts and a shit load more expensive when they do break

Man, where are you guys getting your information? basically everything is universal with the 2j.....geez Price difference isn't much either.

 

[Idealsupra]

Oh, my bad. I didn’t know that we’re going to be debating how we use our terminology at this topic. I’ll try to be more careful how I use my wording. But feel free to correct me any time IJ. Wow, I hope that’s not the only reason you think of way to rod knock. Perhaps some people here try to mislead the others of thinking they can make tons of power with the 7m utilizing the use of bigger Turbo with out using high performance after market parts to rebuild the engine from top to bottom. I wonder why IJ is taking time and money to rebuild his 7m. How much money do you think Duane spent already just to make 600 HP. If you weren’t owning your own business you would not be able to do exactly what Duane and IJ have done to their cars. I can assure that 1j can put out that much power with out rebuilding the engine. Just learn more about Mike Urbanos 1j history and it has been done many times over at Japan with various types of mods to make 500-600 HP. Fix all 7m Toyotas mistakes? Well they did, 1jzgte was the answer for what 7m are lack of and goes on to VVTI to 2jzgte. Simple engineering method. To correct the engine after engine and a new generation is made. Just like your PC. Toy, well that’s what the rich people use when they describe their awesome looking car. =P

you are so full of shit its not even funny...

the bottom line is all the 1jz argument is oh we can make X amount of power without having to rebuild the engine so we are better...

WHEN IN REALITY...for the price it costs the AVERAGE person to successfully swap a 1jz into their car...they could have a COMPLETELY BUILT 7M ready to handle whatever you want to throw at it...

so whats your argument now? more revs? the 7m shouldnt have a single problem adding more revs with a LIGHTLY built drivetrain...and of course a seriously built drivetrain will like it even more...everyone who says you would have to destroke the 7m for it to safely see 8k rpms can kiss my ass...

Bottom line is build the bottom end, build the head for a 7M for the average person would cost around 5-6k. To swap a 1JZ for the AVERAGE person would cost about 3-4k (NOTE: AVERAGE PERSON MEANS SOMEONE ELSE DOING ALL THE LABOR)

SOOOOO for roughly 1k more the 7m will handle WAYYYY more then the 1jz could, the head will handle MORE revs then the 1jz, and IT SOUNDS A BILLION TIMES BETTER.

/fuckin thread

 

[Idealsupra]

Man, where are you guys getting your information? basically everything is universal with the 2j.....geez Price difference isn't much either.

well admittedly i thought parts would be hard to come by...before working on your car and realizing 90% of the parts for the 2j can swap over.... there are a few parts you might have problems with though IE: internals

 

[psifactor]

well admittedly i thought parts would be hard to come by...before working on your car and realizing 90% of the parts for the 2j can swap over.... there are a few parts you might have problems with though IE: internals

but luckly a 2j bottom end will even bolt right up with a little extra effort. with any engine if you fuck up the bottom end your cars going to be down a few days either way.



And i spent less on my 1j than what chris and I did on his build 7m bottom end alone. thats not even touching the head that needs close to 1k

 

[Idealsupra]

but luckly a 2j bottom end will even bolt right up with a little extra effort. with any engine if you fuck up the bottom end your cars going to be down a few days either way.



And i spent less on my 1j than what chris and I did on his build 7m bottom end alone. thats not even touching the head that needs close to 1k

the 2jz crank and pistons are all different there is nothing BOLT UP about it to the 1jz... but we dont need to get into that....

and for one chris also did all the work to put in that 1jz which would easily cost at LEAST 1k for someone else to do it.... and chris is weird sometimes...i dont see spending more then 2500 on a completely built bottom end for a 7m...

and again...i said AVERAGE meaning not counting the deals im sure some people find for clips and/or labor etc...

 

[psifactor]

the 2jz crank and pistons are all different there is nothing BOLT UP about it to the 1jz...

and chris is weird sometimes...i dont see spending more then 2500 on a completely built bottom end for a 7m...

and again...i said AVERAGE meaning not counting the deals im sure some people find for clips and/or labor etc...

The 2j block bolts right to the 1j head thats what i meant

Chris is wierd because he likes to do things 100% right.

and you can have a 1j clip at your door for 3k easily.

 

[Idealsupra]

The 2j block bolts right to the 1j head thats what i meant

Chris is wierd because he likes to do things 100% right.

and you can have a 1j clip at your door for 3k easily.

lol no right and chris's way are most of the time two seperate things lol... he likes to waste money on stuff that is useless or not needed...but again i digress as this isnt what this threads about....

and exactly my point.... 3k for the clip to your door... 2500 for full built 7m sans the head which you dont NEED. yeah im sticking with the 7m.... brand new more reliable engine for 500 less...

 

[psifactor]

full built 7m sans the head which you dont NEED

whoa whoa whoa. The head definatly needs major work to even compete with how well a 1j or 2j head flows.

brand new more reliable engine for 500 less...

I think your going to have have a hard time building a motor that can handle over 800rwhp for less than 3k. Pistons and rods alone will be over 1k. and saying one is more reliable than the other is just an opinion.

either way this thread is gay. Different things for different people. If we all liked the same thing it would be a boring world.

 

[Idealsupra]

whoa whoa whoa. The head definatly needs major work to even compete with how well a 1j or 2j head flows.


I think your going to have have a hard time building a motor that can handle over 800rwhp for less than 3k. Pistons and rods alone will be over 1k. and saying one is more reliable than the other is just an opinion.

either way this thread is gay. Different things for different people. If we all liked the same thing it would be a boring world.

i never said the head was better then the 1j or 2j...BUT it wont have problems getting to 700-800+ hp.... if not more... a bunch of 7ms have made it there with no headwork... the reason i was saying built head before was to rev more...

rods ad pistons can be had for about 1300 or so... plus 1k in machine work....IF THAT... remind me what else is needed to have a built bottom end? NOTHING...thats 2500 right there....

and saying aftermarket forged BRAND NEW internals is more reliable then USED stock internals is not an opinion its a fact.

 

[psifactor]

rods ad pistons can be had for about 1300 or so... plus 1k in machine work....IF THAT... remind me what else is needed to have a built bottom end? NOTHING...thats 2500 right there....

and saying aftermarket forged BRAND NEW internals is more reliable then USED stock internals is not an opinion its a fact.

Medal headgasket + completely gasket set
arp hardware. (we all know how well stock rod bolts hold up)
new oil pump/water pump
So now your 1300 in parts is getting closer to 2k in parts. then add in bearings $100 bucks

proper machine work is over 1k not including jack and mikes shop with outdated equipment and no walls, where i would never leave my stuff. I'll have to dig up chris' old bill. Of couse he did pay a bit more but it was one of the best shops around. you get what you pay for.

 

[IJ.]

I wonder why IJ is taking time and money to rebuild his 7m.

(I wasn't being a smartarse with the "correction" it's just nice to have accurate info here so everyone benefits)

In my case with the benefit of hindsight I "should" have built a 2JZ and dropped that in but I have so much 7M gear stockpiled for this build I'd take too much of a hit if I sold it so will push on!

It's NOT that I'm "rich" I work damn hard for every penny but my Supra is a "Toy" as I don't have many hobbies at the moment!

 

[Idealsupra]

Medal headgasket + completely gasket set
arp hardware. (we all know how well stock rod bolts hold up)
new oil pump/water pump
So now your 1300 in parts is getting closer to 2k in parts. then add in bearings $100 bucks

proper machine work is over 1k not including jack and mikes shop with outdated equipment and no walls, where i would never leave my stuff. I'll have to dig up chris' old bill. Of couse he did pay a bit more but it was one of the best shops around. you get what you pay for.

jack and mikes do AWESOME work...i wuld have no problem bringing my stuff there... the stuff they did to jeremies INCLUDING ASSEMBLY was only like 1200 bucks...and he had a lot of extra shit done thats not needed... IE assembly lol...

here you want a list:

eagle rods: $450
JE pistons: $700
oil pump: $130
bearings: $100
mhg $150
ARP hardware throughout: $275
gasket set: $150
machine work: $1000-$1300
water pump: $50

i dont think im missing anything...now originally i was talking bottom end building for 2500 not entire engine but since you brought it up... im sure im missing odds and ends so lets add another $200 onto that....that equals what about $3000 for FULLY BUILT ENTIRE ENGINE...sans head which again isnt needed for power numbers (it would help with flow but would only add hp later on).

so like i said..fully built 7m which is more reliable because its brand new and everything is aftermarket forged or a used dont know what its been through 1jz clip that could or could not hold up .....

 

[psifactor]

so without touching the head we are up to an expensive 1j clip. to each their own. I choose my route and am very pleased with that decision and wouldn't hesitate to do the same thing over again.

 

[suprra_girl]

bahhhhhhhhhh you two

1j = cool
7m = cool

and for those new 1g swapped owners
1g = cool

alrite

thread ended

finished

finito

!!

done

 

[aye mate]

IMHO they are totally different motors. You guys talk about making more power from a 1jz but what about torque? The 7m makes gobs of it. I think the 7M is better suited for the style of racing (drag) and driving that American car culture is built on(muscle cars,big,heavy pieces of iron with big engines and LOTS of torque) The JZ series of motors torque seems to dissapate while HP still goes up, while the 7M stays pretty even, sometimes more torque than HP. As is said so many times on this forum...Personal Preference. It doesn't matter to me if you swapped in a 1J cause you think its looks better than the 7M, as long as you like it!

 

[Ne0z]

im gonna sing the doom song now!
doom doom da doom doom doom da doom doom da doom doom doom da doom dadada dooooom da dooooom da doom doom doom da doom doom

lol

Sorry... this thread is gay,they are both good engines, if there is room to debate if one is better than the other... then chances are they are pretty equal...

 

[SySt]

People seem to think 7Ms are slow by first impression. You have to understand that turbo cars need to be launched differently. Did you brake boost your Supra? If you did you most likely should have smoked that demio. If not, then you need to learn to drive them 7M before knocking it. If you go 1JZ you will have LESS bottom-end torque. Bottom end torque is what makes a car fun in my opinion. That is why even the 7M with the 91mm stroke is not enough for me, LS1 All the fucking way.

Just learn to drive the car, upgrade it mildly with exahust, downpipe, intake and a boost controller and I am sure you'll be happy.

 

[s1gnal]

Actually i raced the 'Demio' from 100k (60mph) onwards.. thats where i thought the supra would have really took off.. but i was wrong.. well last night i took the standard exhaust off and have now just got a 3inch dump pipe and thats all :icon_bigg that made quite a big difference! so hopefully now ill be able to beat that demio lol! but thanks for all your opinions anyway!

 

[rakkasan]

......
machine work: $1000-$1300

...

Damn, I don't know where you get your machine work done at, but you need to call me next time you have some you need done.

I'm getting the block I just bought bored, cleaned, & decked for $280. And yes, this is the same place I had my head rebuilt & ported & polished last year for $275

What is your source for oil pumps? $130 is a lot better than I could find

 

[itr206]

mod for mod 1j

Dollar for Dollar 7m

Thats is the best post yet on this subject. That seriously sums it all up