7M-GE Inquiry

[Poodles]

On paper, the Turbo doesn't seem to be a powerhouse. 200HP vs 232HP... But, that's not the whole story.

N/A:
Horsepower: 200 @ 6200rpm
Torque: 188 ft-lbs

Turbo:
Horsepower: 230 @ 5600rpm (232 89+ models)
Torque: 246 ft-lbs (256 89+ models)

This is stock, the GTE responds a lot more to BPU mods than the GE meaning your $/HP ratio is more favorable...

 

[Supracentral]

Typical turbo dyno:

Typical N/A dyno:

Don't worry about the numbers, look at the shape of the curves.

Torque = acceleration power.

A faster car has more "area under the curve" when it comes to torque - meaning more power is available over the entire powerband. This is why a big block Chevy shifting at 5,500 RPM will outrun a Honda Civic shifting at 9,000 RPM. Torque is king.

The slight difference in peak power is trivial.

The huge difference in available power across the RPM range is substantial.

 

[Zer0DeGreeZ]

Typical turbo dyno:

[thumb]http://www.one-equals-two.net/cars/200sx/mods/images/dyno2.jpg[/thumb]]

Typical N/A dyno:

[thumb]http://www.diyautotune.com/images/cars/project_cars/mr2/NA-with-MegaSquirt.gif[/thumb]

Don't worry about the numbers, look at the shape of the curves.

Torque = acceleration power.

A faster car has more "area under the curve" when it comes to torque - meaning more power is available over the entire powerband. This is why a big block Chevy shifting at 5,500 RPM will outrun a Honda Civic shifting at 9,000 RPM. Torque is king.

The slight difference in peak power is trivial.

The huge difference in available power across the RPM range is substantial.

Damn good explanation. Although last I was told that basically HP is how fast you can go, Torque is how fas toyu get to your top speed. Sound about right?

Also the only dumb question is the one un-asked. I'm new and still learning I hope I don't get flamed for asking, but what is BPU i see it alot and I'm wondering if it has relevance to me if I buy a GTE engine.

 

[Clip]

bpu is basic performance upgrades, i think. intake/exhaust and the like

 

[Poodles]

Yep, exactly what it means.

Intake, exhaust, downpipe... Anything to make the engine function better as an air pump (which is what it is).

 

[Supracentral]

Off the top of my head:

Basic Performance Upgrades

BPU: Downpipe, exhaust, intake, fuel cut control or lexus AFM, boost control (including shimmed wastegate or bleeder T)

BPU+: all of the above plus cam gears & intercooler.

BPU++: Fuel control (AFC, VPC, MAFT, etc...)

Advanced Performance Upgrades:

APU: Larger turbo, fuel injectors beyond 550's, Standalone, Fuel Pump, etc.

There's always some debate of what goes where. There is no BPU/APU "official" standard.

 

[Ma70.Ent]

225 crank HP is probably pretty easy, but 225 to the wheels however, is a completely different story. The N/A mod FAQ pretty much covers everything you could do that'll give you benefits and stuff. IMO, you should modify the exhaust system and that's about it. If you plan to stay N/A, upgrade the exhaust manifold to a good reputable header. That's about it...

 

[Zer0DeGreeZ]

225 crank HP is probably pretty easy, but 225 to the wheels however, is a completely different story. The N/A mod FAQ pretty much covers everything you could do that'll give you benefits and stuff. IMO, you should modify the exhaust system and that's about it. If you plan to stay N/A, upgrade the exhaust manifold to a good reputable header. That's about it...

Sounds good, but everyone here is really starting to convince me to go GTE, and it doesn't seem like I'd spend any more or less money do to it what would gain more HP (at the wheels) then I would attempting to do it to a 7M-GE.

Okay if thats the way I'm going Obviously I'm gonna buy a seperate engine (GTE) I wanna get it spiffed up but I don't want a JDM one because I don't want to screw around with lengthening the harness and all that. Anyone know where I can buy a decent GTE for inexpensive. I don't want to pay AutoZones 3500 asking price for a remained if I can jsut get a low mileage one for 1200 or so if possible. I'lm just gonna be taking it apart and buying all new internals anyways and having it powder coated for color (block = black, head = black, misc parts stay aluminum in color, pipes and intake stuff polished, valve cover powder coated dark red) yeah that kind of stuff.

I've also heard that it's best to use the GE head on the GTE block? is the CT 26 turbo stock for the GTE? Whats all this talk of a lexus AFM?

Well all I can sya is if I'm going GTE then I'll need help with those questions because it's new to me. I'd appreciate any help that can be offered, you guys have always been good to me thus far, Thanks, bunches.


Zer0

 

[RazoE]

the heads are the same, only difference is the N/A's intake cam. A Lexus AFM is also used when you upgrade to 550cc injectors.

yes the ct26 is the stock turbo.

 

[Nick M]

-Spark plugs & wires-OEM is by far better
-Intake & filterThere have been various tests on what is best, look them up
-Exhaust manifoldA good header will be custom search Doug Thorely or Thorley
-Cat back exhaust (not sure what to pic because I want clean and Subtle)HKS Sport Exhaust, that is for the naturally aspirated.
-Fuel pump, rail, and injectorsNot needed with these mods
-Possibly a port and polishA proper bowl blend helps all heads

Is that pretty much as far as I can go with the GE? I know the following might be a hard question to answer but If I did all that what kind of HP do you think I would be at?

It depends on how good of work is done. How much compression, cam timing, cylinder head flow, engine management, etc. The car really does have 200 flywheel horesepower stock, so 250 is very reasonable. 300 is possible without breaking the bank.

 

[suprarx7nut]

It depends on how good of work is done. How much compression, cam timing, cylinder head flow, engine management, etc. The car really does have 200 flywheel horesepower stock, so 250 is very reasonable. 300 is possible without breaking the bank.

Huh? Are you talking about the GTE here? If I'm not mistaken 250 crank HP is a stretch for an N/A without extensive work and 300 is just about unheard of, with rare exceptions.

Just trying to clarify so the OP doesn't get mixed messages here.

 

[Nick M]

Huh? Are you talking about the GTE here? If I'm not mistaken 250 crank HP is a stretch for an N/A without extensive work and 300 is just about unheard of, with rare exceptions.

Just trying to clarify so the OP doesn't get mixed messages here.

Flywheel only. Have you ever seen a stock exhaust? It isn't that unreasonable, to pick up good power. I haven't seen anybody ever even use a good one on the GE. Only self jobs or something from the local exhaust shop. Or something that just doesn't do anything for the car, like the Super Dragger. Well matched components and the internal work will get you there. If you don't do the internal work, you won't get there.

I agree, most haven't tried to get 300. It is easier to just use a bigger engine, and boost is a bigger engine. It is artificial displacement.

Damn good explanation. Although last I was told that basically HP is how fast you can go, Torque is how fas toyu get to your top speed. Sound about right?

Already answered.

Torque = acceleration power.

 

[Chambers]

as for the exhaust, i've been taking a good look at HKS's sport. it's got 2.5" mandrel bent piping and a muffler that looks stock. normally i'd go with something else but we've got an HKS sport on my g/fs mr2 and it sounds incredible.

again, not much of a gain but there's liable to be some. wish i had more info on it, a dyno comparison would be nice. this is the only pic i can find, and i've never heard a sound clip.

I have that exhaust on my car, I love it!! It was on it when I purchased the car, my guess is that it has been on the car for some time, because the welds on the flanges are starting to show rust.

I would offer a sound clip, but the gasket on my test pipe is blown. I think it sounds awesome, it has no drone at cruising speeds but has a good tone during acceleration. I would recommend it for a NA, but I don't think they make it anymore.

 

[Zer0DeGreeZ]

I'm only asking this here because it started here. But once I get a GTE engine and it's not yet in the car where can I get some VERY GOOD QUALITY internal parts (rods, bearings, main caps, pistons, etc). I want to start out with a very good durable intrernal setup before even thinking about doing anything else. Truth be told I've talked to a buddy in my area, thats not on here, but has a turbo and kicks 400HP, and has put up a challenge to beat his HP. I just figure starting internally since the engine is still out that would be a good idea.


Zer0 DeGreeZ

 

[87nasupra]

Only difference in JDM vs. a US engine is the JDM engine doesnt run an EGR system (engine gas recirculation). You dont need to extend any harness. Alot of guys on here are selling a GTE harness and other swap accessories to swap your GE to GTE. Do a search for n/a to turbo swap. All your info can be found on the forums.

 

[Poodles]

Nope, if you have a 7MGTE front clip, you WILL have to extend the harness like on a 1J. You could also buy a new harness or have someone do the modifications for you (Dr. Tweak)

 

[87nasupra]

im talking about engine only.....not half clips

 

[Zer0DeGreeZ]

Not sure if it matters or can even be done, but if and when I go with my GTE convert. I plan on replacing all the dash gauges with a full set of Digi's from auto meter. The cobalt blue digi's. I'm a techno uber geek and like the digital stuff, lol. I'm sure it shouldn't be to big a problem due to all the gauges having their own seperate wiring rather then jsut being a cluster bezel like most newer cars. What you all think.

 

[Nomad707]

instrument cluster work like that is time consuming and a PITA. you have to have full diagrams of the car and guages, then make a custom bezel that fits into the dash.

 

[Poodles]

Not to mention some functions of the car won't work. Cruise control is a good example...