350+ rwhp in an NA?

[wiggy762]

I searched, read the FAQ's, and am reading Ian's mega-thread (my brain still hurts...is there a list of acronyms?)...and I was unable to find the answer to this question...

Is it possible tio get 350+ rwhp out of a NA motor? If so, is it possible to expect this vehicle to be a reliable DD? Will I need to sell a kidney or parts of my liver, or to whore out my wife or my son in order to finance this build?

More seriously, I have an '88 hardtop, 5 spd, 67k miles, 3" exhaust and some sort of a 'dump' or fart can pipe on it. I am the second owner, car has been garage-kept and Toyota maintained according to maintenance schedule.

She is known as Matt's Awesome White Car...or Mawc...

...back to topic, can a reliable mid-big HP motor be built for a reasonble total cost?


Thanks in advance...love the site!

 

[2543arvin]

Never built a NA motor to that goal, but I can tell you that a 7MGTE swap plus upgrades is a much easier route to take. The NA motor is limited on upgrades, where as the GTE motor, the sky is the limit.

 

[s383mmber1]

All motor 7m? I think not.


350 out of these motors really isnt possible without forced induction.

Sorry!


Much different than your basic 5.0 mustang

 

[Big Wang Bandit]

To build an NA to 350 HP you will need to sell your family. To get 350 HP from a 7M-GTE, you will only have to sell your encyclopedia set and a few records

 

[wiggy762]

Never built a NA motor to that goal, but I can tell you that a 7MGTE swap plus upgrades is a much easier route to take. The NA motor is limited on upgrades, where as the GTE motor, the sky is the limit.

Is it true that reliability can suffer with a turbo motor (gte/1jz/2jz)?

I need this car to be a reliable DD.

As a 40 yo married guy...I also need to keep momma happy.:naughty:

 

[2543arvin]

Is it true that reliability can suffer with a turbo motor (gte/1jz/2jz)?

I need this car to be a reliable DD.

As a 40 yo married guy...I also need to keep momma happy.:naughty:

As long as you do the maintenance upkeep on the motor any car can be reliable.

btw- Im not 40, but I have been married for 3 years and I still know what it means to keep momma happy. lol

 

[wiggy762]

To build an NA to 350 HP you will need to sell your family. To get 350 HP from a 7M-GTE, you will only have to sell your encyclopedia set and a few records

That pic of the Sedan reminds me of the Coupe I used to have...what a monster!:evil2:

What realistic rwhp is possible for my motor...and wil it be reliable...and how muich $$$?

 

[Big Wang Bandit]

If you don't thrash on your 7M,1JZ or 2JZ it will be just as relable as when it was brand new

 

[wiggy762]

As long as you do the maintenance upkeep on the motor any car can be reliable.

btw- Im not 40, but I have been married for 3 years and I still know what it means to keep momma happy. lol

Why does it seem that every other post/thread deals with the lack of reliability and increased down time and the need for a CNC machine, full stocked shop, a couple of lifts, dyno in the corner, mig.tig welder, 20 years engine building experience, an a lucky rabbit's foot?

Even Ian's 270+ page thread about the Fat One delas with almost weekly implosions.

 

[tissimo]

225 shot of nitroush will = ~ 350whp

engine wont last long probably

 

[Big Wang Bandit]

Ian's Supra is modified to the point of barely anything is a Toyota Part anymore

 

[AJ'S 88NA]

NA with 250rwhp should be doable without NOS, but it wiil cost. I had around $3500 in mine at 215rwhp, now another $800+/- for Maft-Pro, SD setup, haven't dyno again yet, hoping for another 20-30hp.

 

[Dirgle]

Ian's Supra is modified to the point of barely anything is a Toyota Part anymore

True, Ian went a route (LPG) that required him to produce many of his own parts, and as with any new design there is a GREAT deal of R&D time that has to go into it. Ian is treading new ground, 500+ RWHP on LPG, and as such is the one who has to discover the limits with each design. Such a path is bound to be a long road.

 

[s383mmber1]

If i were you, and wanted a nice reliable powerhouse, purchased a 1jz and put a intake and exhaust system on it and run it at 14 PSI. You should be more than happy

My motors a 7mge and im thinking im over 300+ horses though

 

[Facime]

Why does it seem that every other post/thread deals with the lack of reliability and increased down time and the need for a CNC machine, full stocked shop, a couple of lifts, dyno in the corner, mig.tig welder, 20 years engine building experience, an a lucky rabbit's foot?

Even Ian's 270+ page thread about the Fat One delas with almost weekly implosions.

What Ian is doing is way on the otside of edge of engineering, his project if FAR from a "typical" supra and shouldnt even be considered in the discussion of reliability. Also, people rarely pst when everything is perfect and "status quo", they post when they are looking for help after a failure, or comiserating with others about their misfortune. Also, whenever you alter a mechanical system you immediately open the door for issues to arrise. There are many many stock GTE's running around as daily drivers without a lick of problems. Sure the occasional BHG happens still but its a well documented problem that can easily be permanently repaired with the proper parts and machine work.

Finally, trying to get that kind of HP out of an NA immediately puts it in the realm of "exotic" and would in fact probably be a handgrenade in the making with FAR less reliability than a 350hp turbo. I dont know the statistics but I would venture a guess and say that 75% (or more) of all reliability/longevity problems associated with the GTE are tuning mistakes.

 

[s383mmber1]

I dont know the statistics but I would venture a guess and say that 75% (or more) of all reliability/longevity problems associated with the GTE are tuning mistakes.

And the next 24% is from the owner not choosing correct parts and cheaping out

 

[Poodles]

you're asking for more than 100HP per liter out of an N/A engine...

possible? yes
expensive as hell? HELL YES

to do that you'll have to raise the rev limiter and have everything to go along with it. Even then you won't have nearly the torque of a GTE. This is why an S2000 can go down to a good nearly stock 7MGTE. Torque is waht makes a car fun to drive.

Turbo adds complexity, with complexity comes the issues of more things to go wrong. If you do all the things to make it relable before you do the upgrades (or in this case, when the engine is out of the car and you rebuild it) you'll be set for quite a while.

I recommend getting a daily driver before doing such things if you don't want to piss off the misses...

Upgrading the car in key areas helps a lot too...

 

[wiggy762]

What Ian is doing is way on the otside of edge of engineering, his project if FAR from a "typical" supra and shouldnt even be considered in the discussion of reliability. Also, people rarely pst when everything is perfect and "status quo", they post when they are looking for help after a failure, or comiserating with others about their misfortune. Also, whenever you alter a mechanical system you immediately open the door for issues to arrise. There are many many stock GTE's running around as daily drivers without a lick of problems. Sure the occasional BHG happens still but its a well documented problem that can easily be permanently repaired with the proper parts and machine work.

Finally, trying to get that kind of HP out of an NA immediately puts it in the realm of "exotic" and would in fact probably be a handgrenade in the making with FAR less reliability than a 350hp turbo. I dont know the statistics but I would venture a guess and say that 75% (or more) of all reliability/longevity problems associated with the GTE are tuning mistakes.

Thanks for the clarification and information regarding this reliability issue.

It seems that I should plan on a NA-T swap.

 

[wiggy762]

you're asking for more than 100HP per liter out of an N/A engine...

possible? yes
expensive as hell? HELL YES

Yep...had an '04 M3...I-6, 3l and 300+ hp.

Many $$$$:naughty:

But, since the Germans could do it...

 

[big idealist]

quick question. are we trying to get 350 with or without nos? im thinkin without. but anyways... i dont remember the site but im sure most of you will know about it as i... the 3.3 liter stroker kit. says it was dyno tested and laid down about 250-265 hp... get that... then do major head work and youd be doing pretty good imo