2JZ-FSE into a Mk3??

[aphxero]

Yeah the head is way different. Itd be pretty easy to use port injection for boost. I'm sure it uses th normal g1, g2, ne stuff for ignition. And it looks to have smart coils with 5v trigger like 1zz, ls1 etc. Wiring everything seems like it'd be simple its just the fuel tuning aspect that's sketch. Getting a handle on tuning for those afr's in vacuum would be a little tough ya know finding the sweet spot? It throws all of the conventional wisdom about fuel atomization/lambda we all grew up on (ie: port injection) right out the window.

We need to research tuning DI motors. I'm gonna look up stuff about the mazda one. In the end it seems like doing it just to do it ya know?

 

[te72]

We need to research tuning DI motors. I'm gonna look up stuff about the mazda one. In the end it seems like doing it just to do it ya know?

That's the appeal of it for me.

If you were switching to port injection for boost, wouldn't that kinda defeat the purpose of doing this though?

 

[aphxero]

not at all. Once those stock injectors are out of fuel what else can ya do? Also it'd be a good way to understand the tuning differences. You could go from port to DI at will. This would get it going fast and be a great learning tool. You should take full advantage of your hard work. Be the guy ya know? I personally try to do this always. It just seems to make the most sense.

I mean getting it running is enough for some people but it would be rad to know everything about it and improve upon it or help other people. Rereading this post I realize I've got too much time on my hands lol.

 

[Dirgle]

That's the appeal of it for me.

If you were switching to port injection for boost, wouldn't that kinda defeat the purpose of doing this though?

For me yes it would defeat the purpose. If you went with port injection for boost you would have to run lower a compression to keep from detonating as you lose many of the advantages to DI that allow for the higher ratios.

not at all. Once those stock injectors are out of fuel what else can ya do? Also it'd be a good way to understand the tuning differences. You could go from port to DI at will. This would get it going fast and be a great learning tool. You should take full advantage of your hard work. Be the guy ya know? I personally try to do this always. It just seems to make the most sense.

I mean getting it running is enough for some people but it would be rad to know everything about it and improve upon it or help other people. Rereading this post I realize I've got too much time on my hands lol.

To overcome the fuel issue you run more fuel pressure. And once you have gone as far as you can with that you need the aftermarket to step up, which they will in time.

For reference the stock 2JZFSE fuel pump runs from 1160 to 1890psi, the new ford F150 ecoboost sees 2,250 psi fuel rail pressure.

 

[aphxero]

yah for sure on the aftermarket. I'm operating under the assumption there is none. And as for running out, How much can they possibly flow before you have to start spraying in from an outside source? As for the CR causing a prob you could always use better fuel in the port injectors that should help some.

I'm just speculating here but man I'd love to get ahold of one of these.

 

[Dirgle]

Yeah it's all speculation until somebody does it. I'm more interested how far I can take DI using all of it's advantages. If you add in port injection you have to make some sacrifices on the DI. That might let you make higher power, but you can do that with a regular 2JZ. I want a big fat torque curve, with a nice flat top.

 

[aphxero]

yeah yeah totally. Maybe q16 and max them DI out? 300whp would be cool. And yeah a dyno chart that looks like a boost comp map would rule

 

[te72]

Only thing I would consider doing through the ports on this thing would be water injection, as a supplement. But I promise you, you could get injectors that would suit a boosted application of this engine. Might have to be a custom setup from RC or something though...

 

[clonephoon]

Just throwing it out there. Probley wrong. But would the FSE Head bolt up to a GTE Block?

"The 2.5-litre 1JZ-FSE employs the same block as the conventional 1JZ-GE; everything up top, however"-wikipedia

 

[te72]

Makes enough sense to keep the block the same, why go to the trouble of making new tooling to make ONE new engine that's only in a very small handful of cars? Seems cost prohibitive... my money's on them being the same block. Internals might be different (pistons for sure), but the block should be the same.

 

[3p141592654]

The problem with DI is that you can only inject on the intake stroke, and that places strict limits on the amount of fuel you can stuff for max power with a given setup. Also, the shorter cycle time at high rpm results in stratification issues when a lot of fuel is dumped in in a very short time. Toyota's latest system has been using a hybrid approach with regular port injection along with the direct injector (D4-S). I would think tuning these complex systems is likely to have a big learning curve. It seems so far that the complexity of the pump and valves operating at enormous pressure is not something that is easily addressed by the aftermarket crowd because of the large investment in tooling and know how needed. In time, I'm sure it will become easier, but this is bleeding edge right now.

 

[te72]

Bleeding edge, and yet this motor is 10 years old. I love it.:rofl:

Also like how the original poster has yet to post back... wonder if we scared him off?

 

[3p141592654]

There are few people willing to fool around with a new under-warranty car. Those that do have big budgets. The rest need to wait until the engine is worth chump-change, about 10 years!

 

[te72]

Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. No way I could have afforded a new Crown with one of these.

 

[iCon]

Hi guys, I have a 2ZJ-FSE for sale.
Startable engine, which I've done up the immobilizer.
Complete with engine, auto tranny, ECU and engine loom.
Water pump and timing belt including all engine oil seal has changed last Feb 2011.

 

[ubersonic]

The 2JZ-FSE is a more fuel efficient but less powerful version of the 2JZ-GE, wouldn't it be easier/cheaper to just fit a 2JZ-GE and go LPG? it just seems like a lot of work just to save a bit on fuel.

 

[Jeff Lange]

What makes you say that? The 7m was originally designed as an NA.

It was? Since when?

The 2JZ-FSE is a more fuel efficient but less powerful version of the 2JZ-GE, wouldn't it be easier/cheaper to just fit a 2JZ-GE and go LPG? it just seems like a lot of work just to save a bit on fuel.

Not less powerful, it is rated at 217hp, while the 2JZ-GE was rated at either 220hp or 215hp, depending on the year.

Jeff

 

[Dirgle]

It was? Since when?

Based upon what I have read and seen, I have found no evidence that the 7M was developed with the express intention to receive turbocharger technology as modern turbocharged engines are nowadays. It's design would indicate that the 7M was intended to be a competent and powerful for it's time I6 motor, as all previous M motors before it had been. With the possible exception of the 2.0 liter M-TEU which was it's self spawned from a NA motor. Now it could be argued that by swapping out the pistons, adding oil squirters and fiddling with a camshaft profile that you are designing an engine to be turbocharged. But these are just modifications that can be made to any NA motor. But I don't see the ground up dedicated design that would address the unique issues turbocharging creates, such as the increased heat generated and the increased cylinder pressures experienced, among other things.

Though if you have some evidence (and it would not suprise me in the least if you did) that Toyota went to Yamaha prior to the creation of the 7M and said we need a head that can flow enough for a turbocharger, but still be volumetricaly efficent in NA form. Or some other such design direction. Then I would be more than happy to change my point of view.