2009 Corvette
- Thread starter BlackMKIII
- Start date
Kai said:
Your comparison is an Ebay link for someone selling a USED 4 year old car? Wow.
Have you ever driven a C6? I suggest you do if you haven't. I drove a Brand New 50k one(not a used 65k) when it first came out in '06 and it is a great handling, driving, performing car. You really can't believe everything Top Gear tells you. Oh and it's Brand New.
Adjuster- I was talking to a friend of mine about the V4/V8 management on the Chevy's. Do you know how they control it? He said they cut off the oil to the hydraulic lifters to shut the valves down then turn off the injectors to isolate only the cylinders firing while cruising.
I agree with the pushrod engine not being dead. Cut's down on pricing and alot of space, lower gravity, and alot easier to fit in the engine bay/between the strut towers on V config.
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MassSupra89 - go READ what i wrote please, typing it out again and again is tiresome.
There are new cars for $75k that would embarrass the Corvette in terms of handling (definitely) and speed, but i've already gone through that and i'm not prepared to sit here and have to defend a PERSONAL OPINION based on PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.
So what? I have a differing opinion to you - big deal. Now get over it and stop nit-picking at everything i write especially when half of you are only skim-reading it and not actually taking in what i've written.
This thread has degenerated into a slanging match and before long, i have no doubt it'll get locked. Maybe i shouldnt bother having such an 'unacceptable' opinion of something that i deem to be a pile of crap - that way you can go on patting yourselves on the back and going 'woo!' over something that clearly isnt the best thing since sliced bread (again, my opinion).
*sigh*
There are new cars for $75k that would embarrass the Corvette in terms of handling (definitely) and speed, but i've already gone through that and i'm not prepared to sit here and have to defend a PERSONAL OPINION based on PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.
So what? I have a differing opinion to you - big deal. Now get over it and stop nit-picking at everything i write especially when half of you are only skim-reading it and not actually taking in what i've written.
This thread has degenerated into a slanging match and before long, i have no doubt it'll get locked. Maybe i shouldnt bother having such an 'unacceptable' opinion of something that i deem to be a pile of crap - that way you can go on patting yourselves on the back and going 'woo!' over something that clearly isnt the best thing since sliced bread (again, my opinion).
*sigh*
Won't be locked if it's kept Civil......:nono:
Bit of a hint it's "SUPRAMANIA" not Vettemania and while OT is pretty open here if the name calling starts again it WILL be locked and those responsible will be having a holiday.
Bit of a hint it's "SUPRAMANIA" not Vettemania and while OT is pretty open here if the name calling starts again it WILL be locked and those responsible will be having a holiday.
Arial Atom would spank a corvette around a track, but on the straights it would lose...
You're still comparing apples to oranges...
Sooo... how about the shitty GT500 mustang that can't handle for shit?
You're still comparing apples to oranges...
Sooo... how about the shitty GT500 mustang that can't handle for shit?
Adjuster
Supramania Contributor
How about this Kai?
Take the quality build of our MK3, and put the latest V8/Pushrod tech motor into it?
Sounds like a winner to me.
We solve the build quality and interior issues of the Vette, and we unfuse a serious power jolt into a car that deserves more power.
A LS9 MK3 would be.
Lighter than stock.
More powerful than stock.
More reliable than stock.
Sound like a V8. (Not a bad thing you have to admit...)
Add a smaller SC pully, and raise the boost... get 700hp..
Plenty for anyone.. especially as the tourqe figures will be awesome, and you know this motor has power to spare.
Might even improve the handling of the MK3 chassis too. The engine would sit back further in the chassis, improving weight distribution...
Imagine this with twin turbo's and the supercharger... It would be 1200hp possible, and you might be able to get that with a computer re-program, larger injectors, and another fuel pump to supply more fuel... (Well, and the turbo system... and intercooler, or would that be a pre-intercooler... LOL)
My supra sounds like a farm truck with the stroker, so being "agricultrural" is not a problem when it's making plenty of tourqe and still has top end power. (And the LS engines have plenty of both.)
Just my .02. I'm not a Vette owner, or buyer, but I would trade my 88T with all it's mods for a current LS7 Z06 or the new ZR1 with the LS9.
(And go straight to the net to buy a set of real seats for either car... )
Take the quality build of our MK3, and put the latest V8/Pushrod tech motor into it?
Sounds like a winner to me.
We solve the build quality and interior issues of the Vette, and we unfuse a serious power jolt into a car that deserves more power.
A LS9 MK3 would be.
Lighter than stock.
More powerful than stock.
More reliable than stock.
Sound like a V8. (Not a bad thing you have to admit...)
Add a smaller SC pully, and raise the boost... get 700hp..
Plenty for anyone.. especially as the tourqe figures will be awesome, and you know this motor has power to spare.
Might even improve the handling of the MK3 chassis too. The engine would sit back further in the chassis, improving weight distribution...
Imagine this with twin turbo's and the supercharger... It would be 1200hp possible, and you might be able to get that with a computer re-program, larger injectors, and another fuel pump to supply more fuel...
(Well, and the turbo system... and intercooler, or would that be a pre-intercooler... LOL)My supra sounds like a farm truck with the stroker, so being "agricultrural" is not a problem when it's making plenty of tourqe and still has top end power. (And the LS engines have plenty of both.)
Just my .02. I'm not a Vette owner, or buyer, but I would trade my 88T with all it's mods for a current LS7 Z06 or the new ZR1 with the LS9.
(And go straight to the net to buy a set of real seats for either car...
)
I read what you wrote, and asked you a question.
For the third time. Have you driven the C6 Corvette? I'm guessing no, because your argument is mostly based on what you've read or heard.
You compared a used car to a Brand new vette because pre-owned vehicles are the only way you can match the perforomance in the same price range. Seems very clear to me. This discussion started as you can't get performance like the Z06 for the same price range. Now please show me what 75k car off the showroom floor like the Corvette would "embarrass" it.
I respect your personal opinion. But you're backing it up with pure falseness "pushrods are old technology" "leafsprings are ancient" give me a break. You haven't even driven one to know this.
For the third time. Have you driven the C6 Corvette? I'm guessing no, because your argument is mostly based on what you've read or heard.
You compared a used car to a Brand new vette because pre-owned vehicles are the only way you can match the perforomance in the same price range. Seems very clear to me. This discussion started as you can't get performance like the Z06 for the same price range. Now please show me what 75k car off the showroom floor like the Corvette would "embarrass" it.
I respect your personal opinion. But you're backing it up with pure falseness "pushrods are old technology" "leafsprings are ancient" give me a break. You haven't even driven one to know this.
Adjuster
Supramania Contributor
Here is a better poll. (And thread.)
Have you raced or driven a 88 Vette latey? (Insert whatever year Supra you own...)
I have.. It was not a race. The Vette was a dog. Sorry, no contest, and the owner was supprised as hell how nice the MK3 was..
Now, there are C4's with twin turbo, or supercharged built engines in them that are very fast, but the interior is no winner for me in any race. (I agree with Kai on this, the older GM stuff from about 82 on were mostly budget limited designs on the interior.. Cheap infact.)
That is when Toyota and others really started to kick some interior ass, and Audi really stepped up with the designs and quality feel to interior and exterior parts. (like the "new" ford 500/Tarus? It's pretty funny how it looks like a old A6 design just scaled up 10% in size...) Or the new Suburban dash? It's very much a copy of what Audi and VW have sold for years...
But, pushrods aside, GM has done great things wth the LS engines. That's no bullshit, and I'd put one in my Supra in a heartbeat if the swap was easy and cost effective. (And compared to what I've spent on the stroker(s) it looks better and better.. LOL)
I see the future for my MK3, and it might be converting it to a hybrid MK3/ZR1 chassis... Modify the rear floor to accomodate the transaxle, and put the LS9 under the hood...
Would be a very fun sleeper car, especially if you put a muffler on it large enough to make it mostly quiet.
Have you raced or driven a 88 Vette latey? (Insert whatever year Supra you own...)
I have.. It was not a race. The Vette was a dog. Sorry, no contest, and the owner was supprised as hell how nice the MK3 was..
Now, there are C4's with twin turbo, or supercharged built engines in them that are very fast, but the interior is no winner for me in any race. (I agree with Kai on this, the older GM stuff from about 82 on were mostly budget limited designs on the interior.. Cheap infact.)
That is when Toyota and others really started to kick some interior ass, and Audi really stepped up with the designs and quality feel to interior and exterior parts. (like the "new" ford 500/Tarus? It's pretty funny how it looks like a old A6 design just scaled up 10% in size...) Or the new Suburban dash? It's very much a copy of what Audi and VW have sold for years...
But, pushrods aside, GM has done great things wth the LS engines. That's no bullshit, and I'd put one in my Supra in a heartbeat if the swap was easy and cost effective. (And compared to what I've spent on the stroker(s) it looks better and better.. LOL)
I see the future for my MK3, and it might be converting it to a hybrid MK3/ZR1 chassis... Modify the rear floor to accomodate the transaxle, and put the LS9 under the hood...
Would be a very fun sleeper car, especially if you put a muffler on it large enough to make it mostly quiet.
I have driven a corvette (2001 on a 51plate -the C5?), and been a passenger in one. After an hour, i was rather tired of driving it and after another hour, i was tired of being a passenger in it...
I compared a 75k car to a 75k car as the poster in question said 'show me a car for 75k that can wax a corvette' so i did - used doesnt matter. Point was, that for 75k you can easily buy something new or used that'll obliterate it. I stated earlier - the Noble M12GTO would do it (can still get an '07 one). One of those, to drive, is absolutely sublime compared to the vette, which felt incredibly uncomfortable on the arse after just 20 minutes. The gearbox didn't bother me as i prefer a 'chunky' shifter - my XR4x4 years ago was notchy as hell (Type 9 gearbox - look it up!). Aren't these supposed to retail for 100k anyway?
Pushrods *are* an old technology its a design that stems from the 1940's! If they werent 'old', why wouldnt every other manufacturer still be using them? They've all moved onto SOHC or DOHC designs. It looks like, from the rest of the worlds perspective, that the US automotive industry is standing still when it comes to technological innovation with regards to engines. It's not like they just dont exist - take the LT5 engine that Lotus designed for GM - what was wrong with taking that and developing it for further use?
I've worked with V8's before (Ford Big Block) and while they're simple to work on and easy to screw power out of - it doesnt seem right to use it in anything past the 1970's....imo, they had their time and their place and they should stick to it and let the new tech take over...
Adjuster - for a V8 in a Supra....mmm...i'd probably just go with a 3UZ-FE out of a smashed SC430, or if i was rich, the 2UR-GSE out of the new Lexus and leave it stock
I compared a 75k car to a 75k car as the poster in question said 'show me a car for 75k that can wax a corvette' so i did - used doesnt matter. Point was, that for 75k you can easily buy something new or used that'll obliterate it. I stated earlier - the Noble M12GTO would do it (can still get an '07 one). One of those, to drive, is absolutely sublime compared to the vette, which felt incredibly uncomfortable on the arse after just 20 minutes. The gearbox didn't bother me as i prefer a 'chunky' shifter - my XR4x4 years ago was notchy as hell (Type 9 gearbox - look it up!). Aren't these supposed to retail for 100k anyway?
Pushrods *are* an old technology its a design that stems from the 1940's! If they werent 'old', why wouldnt every other manufacturer still be using them? They've all moved onto SOHC or DOHC designs. It looks like, from the rest of the worlds perspective, that the US automotive industry is standing still when it comes to technological innovation with regards to engines. It's not like they just dont exist - take the LT5 engine that Lotus designed for GM - what was wrong with taking that and developing it for further use?
I've worked with V8's before (Ford Big Block) and while they're simple to work on and easy to screw power out of - it doesnt seem right to use it in anything past the 1970's....imo, they had their time and their place and they should stick to it and let the new tech take over...
Adjuster - for a V8 in a Supra....mmm...i'd probably just go with a 3UZ-FE out of a smashed SC430, or if i was rich, the 2UR-GSE out of the new Lexus and leave it stock
Kai said:
That's pretty weak. There's nothing wrong per se with a pushrod engine. Obviously the one used in a C6 is an excellent example of its effectiveness. You are acting like OHC design is *new* technology - not even close.
OHC designs have less reciprocating mass therefore allowing for higher engine speeds, and its a simpler system. Less to go wrong...
My "take"
In the USA the Vette is a brilliant buy and it would be hard to beat the bang for the buck.
Rest of the world it's a damn expensive car so not nearly as attractive.
"If" I could buy one here for the same US Price I'd grab one in a heartbeat even after watching TG on Saturday (repeats) but at the local price I'd have to pass.
In the USA the Vette is a brilliant buy and it would be hard to beat the bang for the buck.
Rest of the world it's a damn expensive car so not nearly as attractive.
"If" I could buy one here for the same US Price I'd grab one in a heartbeat even after watching TG on Saturday (repeats) but at the local price I'd have to pass.
BINGO ^^
Like I said, in the states it's the best bang for the buck, in the rest of the world, no so much...
Oh, and let's get something straight. Pushrods, OHC, ect is ALL old tech. About the newest design is the wankel, and even that is old...
They all have their own issues, and GM stuck to the pushrod design for heritage (cause the old school gearheads would bitch).
Like I said, in the states it's the best bang for the buck, in the rest of the world, no so much...
Oh, and let's get something straight. Pushrods, OHC, ect is ALL old tech. About the newest design is the wankel, and even that is old...
They all have their own issues, and GM stuck to the pushrod design for heritage (cause the old school gearheads would bitch).
They bitched about dropping the flip-up headlights, I can't imagine how an OHC engine in a Corvette would go over.
Which I think is funny since the corvette originally didn't have pop-ups...
Isn't it mazerati that has a car that looks a hell of a lot like a corvette? TG did a review of that and bashed it for not offering more than the vette at nearly double it's price...
Isn't it mazerati that has a car that looks a hell of a lot like a corvette? TG did a review of that and bashed it for not offering more than the vette at nearly double it's price...
Kai said:
Dude,
we're talking about C6s having better interiors. It's already been said the previous model Corvettes weren't all that but the C6 is much better in that department. You were asked if you've driven a C6 yet you keep ignoring it and dancing around the question
Also, you're comparing a used car price to a new car price is lame. I really hope you see the problem in there. (Hello, depreciation.) Find a new car that out compares. I could show you a 75k dollar Supra that would be quicker and faster than that Porsche. So what? It's used and modded. Stop dancing around this one too and show a new car.
Hey guys, regarding the "out-of-date" pushrods, the Corvette DID have a DOHC motor at one point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette#ZR-1
Just saying....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette#ZR-1
Just saying....
after reading through all of this non sense(bored at work) all iv'e learned is that kai is very biased so no matter what facts anyone pulls out it will still be europe> america. It doesn't matter if you have been in or driven a corvette your not debating corvette's your debating the c6 corvette. i hate corvettes but the new c6 is an amazing car no matter how you look at it. yes the old interiors are plastic the new vette is much different which has already been mentioned and none of the cars you have named will actually beat the vette overall, if one can it's only in a straightline or only at the track. Stock for stock i just don't see a better car out there. sure alot of things could be faster but not right out of the box like this.
normally im all down for the european side of the argument but this is the one epic american car that you can't really say sucks. it obviously PROVEN to be glorified like this, it's not just americans standing behind something because it's "from" america.
normally im all down for the european side of the argument but this is the one epic american car that you can't really say sucks. it obviously PROVEN to be glorified like this, it's not just americans standing behind something because it's "from" america.
For $70k you cannot find a faster new production car in this class in the USA. The only things an M3 or SLK55 have on a C6 Z06 is a nicer interior and better build quality. Comparing a kit car or a used car against it is just illogical.