1jzgte Vs 2jzgte (aristp)

[88TARGATOP]

sup everyone,
last time it was 1jzgte vs. 2jzge. but this time its a little different. i found a aristo clip 2jzgte auto. for the same price as a 1jzgte 5speed!! installation is not a problem. i have been going crazy over this decision for the past week. i really need help!!!! so here we go again.. and please dont talk about the 7m!!!!!! I m just looking for a decision and a little support on y.

the reason i dunt kno which one, is becuase i really want a 5 speed. but the 2jzgte is a better motor all around, but i also have some question,

i read that toyota over rates their motors, i found that out somewhere on autochannels.com if the jdm 2jzgte non vvti is at280, is the aristo also at 280 or 276(i found online i know its only 4 hp.just want right figures)

and isnt the 1jzgte also rated at 280... so...equal hp#, but different motors, dunt know.... i m really going crazy!! help me please... i want to make a decsision asap!!!!

thanx again guys!!!

 

[hardcharger]

dude the 2j will end up costing you ALOT more in the long run. especially out of an aristo. Someones gonna get on here and flame me but, seriously if you want a 5spd go 1j you can always get a 2j bottom end later.

 

[daneyan]

both bottom ends handle about the same power stock right? get the 1jz man. it's high time somone builds a serious 1jz. holla at me as well i just got a 1jz car with a single on it so if u want ne info. i'm in fort lauderdale.

 

[Big Wang Bandit]

Well I always thought the 2j put out above 300 horses.

The 1j from what I hear doesnt produce as much torque. While the 2j,being 3 liters will put more out.

Just basic little assumptions where I am probably wrong.

 

[88TARGATOP]

well how is the 2jz gonna run me more money later. the 2jz is more relevant for parts in america... both motors are running me the same amount at the end!!!

 

[935motorsports]

1jz if you want it to be running anytime soon.

Example, hardcharger speaks from experience. He went aristo 2J. Still not installed. Had it been a JZA70 front clip he would have already been driving it.

 

[cassio]

2jz aristo is not that difficult.. i am working on all of the wiring schematics and will be making a user friendly electronics matrix, a lot better than arnouts version.

As far as the 2jz being more expensive, not sure on that one..... especially for aftermarket support.

I just got a 2jz aristo clip and am just about ready to get everything going with a mild single.

aside from the cost of the clip things aren't that much more, although i am replacing and upgrading a lot of things at the same time.

-ian

 

[group a supra]

Well I always thought the 2j put out above 300 horses.

The 1j from what I hear doesnt produce as much torque. While the 2j,being 3 liters will put more out.

Just basic little assumptions where I am probably wrong.

uk cars were uprated to 320hp

 

[PROJECT N00b]

well heres my .02 cents, but if you think about it, like someone stated earlier, the 2jz has more displacement than the 1jz, and there ARE more after market parts for the 2jz than the 1jz...the 1jz seems, to me, to be weaker than the 2jz...obviously...there thats all i have to give.

 

[daneyan]

why obvisously stronger? it's just that no ones really tested a 1jz bottom end like they've tested 2jz bottom ends over here in the US. there was a post where it stated that the pistons were the same on the 1jz and 2jz and that the rods were actually stouter on the 1jz because of their short length and thickness.
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?p=234438#post234438

 

[bigaaron]

Lets see...

You would need:

Mid sump oil pan
Diring diagrams for an Aristo, and the wiring is way more
complicated then a 1jz
Bellhousing
Flywheel
Motor mount brackets
Custom intercooler piping
Intercooler
Radiator and hoses

Plus all the normal 1jz swap stuff:
Power steering line
Throttle cable

We have done MANY 1jz swaps and we are working on a 2jz swap right now and I can tell you honestly it WILL cost you several thousand dollars more then a 1jz swap, and take possibly weeks more time to complete.

I forget who has the sig that says:
"A lack of knowledge makes everything cheaper, easier, and faster" or something like that.

 

[Wills7MGTE]

Not trying to like contradict all these fine automotive enthusiast sites and books and magazines but yea, my friend erecently bought a bone stock 1997 twin turbo 6 speed and he had it dynoed at his friends shop on thier chassis dyno, it recorded 311 rwhp and 342 ft/lbs torque on pump gas, all stock all we did before we ran it was disconnect battery to allow for reset, we were told it would clear any knock codes if there had ever been any so that the car would not run in safe mode, we ran 3 pulls this was average result, one run netted 314 and the other run netted 309 so 311 is defiante average there. If I had a choice between 1 and 2jz I'd go with the 2jz rarer to see in mk3's, easier to get serious power out of, and more torque. Anyways thats my say.

 

[bigaaron]

Not trying to like contradict all these fine automotive enthusiast sites and books and magazines but yea, my friend erecently bought a bone stock 1997 twin turbo 6 speed and he had it dynoed at his friends shop on thier chassis dyno, it recorded 311 rwhp and 342 ft/lbs torque on pump gas, all stock all we did before we ran it was disconnect battery to allow for reset, we were told it would clear any knock codes if there had ever been any so that the car would not run in safe mode, we ran 3 pulls this was average result, one run netted 314 and the other run netted 309 so 311 is defiante average there. If I had a choice between 1 and 2jz I'd go with the 2jz rarer to see in mk3's, easier to get serious power out of, and more torque. Anyways thats my say.

I don't think you are contradicting anyone. No one will argue that the 2jz will make more peak output power stock, and has the potential to make more power then a 1jz when modded, BUT, the stuff the 1jz does have going for it are something an enthusiast can deffinately appreciate. First of all the 1jz has a true twin turbo setup, instead of the sequential turbo setup of the 2jz. When the boost comes on you really feel it. Second, the higher redline is really nice for racing on a track or drifting. Third, the 1jz came in A70 chassis. Because of this all the connectors are in the right place, the motor mounts are in the right place, the AC is easy to make work with no custom hoses needed, the radiator fits, the stock intercooler fits, etc.... It's just an easier swap. If money is no object then go 2jz with a t04z and call it a day. For drag racing the 2jz is a good choice.

 

[Satan]

2jz aristo is not that difficult.. i am working on all of the wiring schematics and will be making a user friendly electronics matrix, a lot better than arnouts version.

As far as the 2jz being more expensive, not sure on that one..... especially for aftermarket support.

I just got a 2jz aristo clip and am just about ready to get everything going with a mild single.

aside from the cost of the clip things aren't that much more, although i am replacing and upgrading a lot of things at the same time.

-ian

Having done the swaps as well... now werkin' on an Aristo 2JZ swap into the MKIII....

It's all relative... If you get a 1JZ out of a Soarer, you will have all of the same issues as installing a 2JZ...

You will need...

1. Mid-rear sump oilpan
2. motor mount brackets from a JZA70
3. Intercooler (opposite side inlet/outlet) and related piping
4. JZA70 bellhousing (for manual tranny), or Fab up tranny mount & driveshaft if staying 2J auto
5. extend wiring harness & make connections...Aristo pinouts VERY similar to US TT Supra
6. Upgraded fuel pump (recommended for either swap)
7. 7M oil pressure sender
8. 7M/1JZ temp sensor (t-stat/waterneck housing).
9. Other various goodies

Bottom line is that it will take the same work, $$, and effort. The only difference is what you'll get with your clip and what you'll have to go get. If your 1JZ does not come from a JZA70, then you have just about the same work and items needed as for a 2J swap.

If you get the JZA70 clip, you will have the IC, bellhousing, motor mount brackets, and a few differences which will take the guesswork out.

Another piece that was important for me is that everyone recognizes the 2JZ... Here in TX where they inspect, you take a chance on them failing you, whereas they would otherwise think that you just put a US 2J in there (unless thye look real close).

For everyone else... please get off the performance differences. They aren't that different and if you go single on either one, you still have a very fun engine... who cares about rev limits and sequential boosting (and all that other BS you've read), when you're stuck to seat at WOT.

Sorry... just gets old watching everyone beat up on the differences. Get what you want, because it's WHAT YOU WANT. I wanted a 2J in my MKII from way back when I saw Urbano's and Arnout's. I could give a rat's butt what the potential is, since I plan on a LESS THAN 400HP daily driver.

So, if ya get the 1J or 2J at the same price, go with the 1J (as long as it's a JZA70 clip)... for the 2J, you will have to get a few more things, but it really is not "that" much more.
E

 

[bigaaron]

Having done the swaps as well... now werkin' on an Aristo 2JZ swap into the MKIII....

It's all relative... If you get a 1JZ out of a Soarer, you will have all of the same issues as installing a 2JZ...

You will need...

1. Mid-rear sump oilpan
2. motor mount brackets from a JZA70
3. Intercooler (opposite side inlet/outlet) and related piping
4. JZA70 bellhousing (for manual tranny), or Fab up tranny mount & driveshaft if staying 2J auto
5. extend wiring harness & make connections...Aristo pinouts VERY similar to US TT Supra
6. Upgraded fuel pump (recommended for either swap)
7. 7M oil pressure sender
8. 7M/1JZ temp sensor (t-stat/waterneck housing).
9. Other various goodies

Bottom line is that it will take the same work, $$, and effort. The only difference is what you'll get with your clip and what you'll have to go get. If your 1JZ does not come from a JZA70, then you have just about the same work and items needed as for a 2J swap.

If you get the JZA70 clip, you will have the IC, bellhousing, motor mount brackets, and a few differences which will take the guesswork out.

Another piece that was important for me is that everyone recognizes the 2JZ... Here in TX where they inspect, you take a chance on them failing you, whereas they would otherwise think that you just put a US 2J in there (unless thye look real close).

For everyone else... please get off the performance differences. They aren't that different and if you go single on either one, you still have a very fun engine... who cares about rev limits and sequential boosting (and all that other BS you've read), when you're stuck to seat at WOT.

Sorry... just gets old watching everyone beat up on the differences. Get what you want, because it's WHAT YOU WANT. I wanted a 2J in my MKII from way back when I saw Urbano's and Arnout's. I could give a rat's butt what the potential is, since I plan on a LESS THAN 400HP daily driver.

E

Soarer IS mid sump.

I wouldn't call rev limits or sequential boosting "bs i've read". Drive my 1jz mk3 and then drive a 2jz mk3 and you will know exactly what i'm talking about.

Who it beating up on the difference? The real issue is when people get all hurt about someone pointing out the differences.

For you to say they both will take the same and work money means you must have never done both swaps yourself. I could do a 1jz swap in a weekend if I have a clip, try that with a 2jz swap.

The jdm aristo harness is similar to the us tt harness, but what does that mean?
It's still a jza80 chassis style harness. None of the connectors match and it takes hours and hours of work sitting there with several tsrm's and other wiring diagrams to figure everything out. The 1jz harness takes repinning a few body connectors and then it's plug and play. You also have to decide what you want to do about the fuel pump ecu.

If the 2jz is so good for all situations, why is almost every toyota that's not a ae86 running a 1jz in the US D1 drift competitions?

 

[Satan]

I've done both swaps, and driven both (still prefer the 2J for many reasons, none are performance-related). The only reason you can't do most swaps in a weekend is planning. If you had all the info and HW ready, it'd be the same. Mine and most ppl's hold-ups are counting on other ppl to deliver and unexpected'unforeseen challenges.

Let me be clear --- No engine is good for all situations... the best engine to have is the one that suits you, and what your goals are. Again, my swap has less to do with performance, and more because of uniqueness (that's all I meant about performance). When I went back to stock, it was because I thought that having the stock ___ (I'm not gonna be the one to bring it into this thread) would meet my need for reliability and I could enjoy JUST driving my MKIII. It did not meet my needs/wants and now I'm goin' back 2JZ.

Matter of fact, I went from 5-speed to auto and sent my JZA70 bellhousing to Cassio... why? Because now, I drive in bumper-to-bumper traffic and having it auto suits my wants/needs.

So, for anyone else who wishes to stir the pot and ask about differences, or what you should do....

1. Search -- Differences, swaps, costs, pros/cons, potential, requirements, inspections/emissions, owners, etc have all been talked about many times before.
2. Go drive one yourself -- You want to swap, but have yet to ride or drive in one? Dealerships don't sell many cars which have not been test driven... Even the car magazines' reviews are designed to get you to go test drive and see if it's for you. So.... try it and see if it's what you want, worth the money, headache, etc, etc.
3. Make a list -- Make a list of those that you know have done a swap, or not succeeded at one. Yes, the search feature works for that too.... Ask THEM directly (not anyone else). What were the challenges, successes, tips, tricks, etc which are not well-documented.
4. Swap -- Perform whatever swap you end up choosing and post the results. Provide good, accurate info, so that the next person has an idea of what to expect, if they choose the same one.

 

[bigaaron]

One more thing that was not mentioned so far is the fan. You will need a complete hydrofan setup, or electric fans which also adds to the cost and time.
Or you could use a mechanical fan but you would have to purchase a fan, pulley and clutch.

I probably came off sounding too negative so I want to clarify that I think the 2jz is a great motor to swap in a mk3. It will just cost more money and take more time to complete then a 1jz.

 

[Satan]

Hey bigA...

Got your PM... We're all good. I apologize for getting on the soap box in these type of threads. However, there are 2 things that I attempt to do.

1. Prevent further infighting in our shrinking community. Anytime these threads are started, ppl get flamed attacked, or whatever... just ends up bad many times (not always tho).

2. Educate the thread-starter and anyone else following the thread, that a choice of engines (for your swap), is an individual choice. Educating yourself on all the pros/cons involved, and defining your goals. Then ask swap-specific questions if needed. We're all here to help or hopefully contribute in a positive fashion.

The search function works here, and the stickies in the SF 1J/2J sections provide more than enough info. You must make the choice between 5-speed or auto, or whatever, based on your wants/needs. Creating these "this vs. that" thread has clearly led to alot of bitterness and further division of the community, in the past. Not so bad here on SM tho... thank Gawd!

...okay, off my soapbox again.

 

[drunk_medic]

A little bit to throw in here - a pair of CT-12b turbochargers [US Spec 2JZ] can easily be made to run in True-Twin mode, AKA Parallel, just like the 1JZs. All you really need to do is disconnect two rod-actuated butterfly valves, one in the Y-pipe and one in the piping that goes from the intake Y to the rear turbocharger, and force them to stay in the open position. It has been theorized that this may also prolong the life of the rear turbocharger, as it will not be accellerating from near-idle to full spool in a split second as the sequential mode snaps open these two butterfly valves and allows the rear turbocharger to come online. I believe this will also allow as close to even-wear of the turbochargers as could be possible.
What would be nice is if Toyota also put CT-12bs in parallel on the 1JZ...
I know it's been done by people already, but a factory upgrade option would have been cool.

 

[bigaaron]

A little bit to throw in here - a pair of CT-12b turbochargers [US Spec 2JZ] can easily be made to run in True-Twin mode, AKA Parallel, just like the 1JZs. All you really need to do is disconnect two rod-actuated butterfly valves, one in the Y-pipe and one in the piping that goes from the intake Y to the rear turbocharger, and force them to stay in the open position. It has been theorized that this may also prolong the life of the rear turbocharger, as it will not be accellerating from near-idle to full spool in a split second as the sequential mode snaps open these two butterfly valves and allows the rear turbocharger to come online. I believe this will also allow as close to even-wear of the turbochargers as could be possible.
What would be nice is if Toyota also put CT-12bs in parallel on the 1JZ...
I know it's been done by people already, but a factory upgrade option would have been cool.

I have heard the opposite, that making them true 2jz twins causes the rear turbo to fail prematurely. Can't say I 've tried it though.