1JZ Crank Sensor and Cam Sensor tecnical questions, for megasquirt/ standalone build

[viperkillertt]

I am doing the mega squirt wiring up and i need to know if these are missing tooth setups or single tooth setups. If anyone has pictures of the sensors, that would be even more awesome! Does anyone have the tooth counts?Thanks!

EDIT 8/3/08: So for future people, the 1jz uses 2 sensors on the intake cam. Each one is a single tooth. The crank uses a 12 tooth, but in the computer it acts like a 24 tooth because it turns 24 times for each event. Further in this thread there is a lot of information on the sensors, which are VR sensors. There are no Hall sensors on our engine. So if you are building a megasquirt system, you must build a VR sensor conditioning circuit.
These are the parts that you will need for the megasquirt circuit, double check your manual, but this is what i used:
300R resistor = 330QBK-ND
18K resistor = 18KQBK-ND
39K resistor = 39KQBK-ND
4K7 resistor = 4.7KQBK-ND
1M resistor = 1MQBK-ND
0.01uF Cap = P3103-ND
0.33uF Cap = P10973-ND
330pF Cap = PS1331J-ND
0.1uF Cap = P10967-ND
LM1815N = LM1815N-ND

useful link about the above circuit.
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=95888

The second numbers are the digikey numbers. Digikey is an excellent place to buy theses parts. All of them cost around 7 bucks shipped.

 

[viperkillertt]

Bump, i really need this info. If anyone knows anyone that might know, it would be very helpful.

 

[Bigzavs]

dont know about the crank sensor

but there is only one tab on the cams for pickup on the sensors

 

[annoyingrob]

The crank sensor is just a set of teeth. I honestly don't know what the ECU uses it for.

you have TWO cam angle sensors. (dual reluctor wheel setup in MS IIRC). One is a 24 tooth wheel, the 2nd is a 2 tooth wheel. Look on the megasquirt forums for "toyota dual wheel" trigger setups.

 

[viperkillertt]

The crank sensor is just a set of teeth. I honestly don't know what the ECU uses it for.

you have TWO cam angle sensors. (dual reluctor wheel setup in MS IIRC). One is a 24 tooth wheel, the 2nd is a 2 tooth wheel. Look on the megasquirt forums for "toyota dual wheel" trigger setups.

Thanks Rob for the input. I will update when i have the car up and running.

 

[foreverpsycotic]

You might also want to check and see if there are any 2jz cars running MS, their sensors are the same exact ones.

 

[viperkillertt]

You might also want to check and see if there are any 2jz cars running MS, their sensors are the same exact ones.

Ironically there are more 1jz then 2jz. I think it is just due to the difference in cost. I think some guy is trying to do it with a na 2jz, but that doesn't really help.

I think i have found quite a few answers to my question. It is a dual trigger setup. I will update when i have my car actually running.

 

[viperkillertt]

The crank sensor is just a set of teeth. I honestly don't know what the ECU uses it for.

you have TWO cam angle sensors. (dual reluctor wheel setup in MS IIRC). One is a 24 tooth wheel, the 2nd is a 2 tooth wheel. Look on the megasquirt forums for "toyota dual wheel" trigger setups.

OK,
They are not a 24 tooth and 1 tooth. There are 2 single tooth gears.

I just opened up my head to find this out.

Also they use vr sensors instead of hall sensors.

This is extremely frustrating, we ordered everything on the premise that the sensors were hall and it was a 24 tooth gear.

 

[Evilempire1.3JZ-GTE]

OK,
They are not a 24 tooth and 1 tooth. There are 2 single tooth gears.

I just opened up my head to find this out.

Also they use vr sensors instead of hall sensors.

This is extremely frustrating, we ordered everything on the premise that the sensors were hall and it was a 24 tooth gear.

Here is your answer as short and direct to put it you have
2 cam angle sensors
1 crank angle sensor

The 2 Cam angle sensors are 180° out from each other.
Cam angle sensor 1 is the ecu input for fire timing.
Cam angle sensor 2 is the input for engine RPMS

However Cam angle sensor 1 is the middle sensor Cam angle sensor 2 is the back sensor But acording to everyone whoe hooks up to standalones they use #2 Cam angle sensor (the rear one) for TDC sync pulse

If you look at the crank gear it haves 12 teeth picked up by regular mag sensor 2 wire reluctor sensor

but it is actualy reads as a 24 teeth sensor because we have a four stroke engine which means the crank turns 720° for over complete firing of all the engine cylinders the Cam angle sensor/cam gear only turns 360° for every 720° of crank turns because the cam gear haves 24 teeth so it is the sync event!

So when the Cam angle sensor fires & the Crank angle sensor fires at the same time that is the event that sets timing then after every 4 teeth on the crank trigger the firing event of each cylinder in firing order.

 

[viperkillertt]

Here is your answer as short and direct to put it you have
2 cam angle sensors
1 crank angle sensor

The 2 Cam angle sensors are 180° out from each other.
Cam angle sensor 1 is the ecu input for fire timing.
Cam angle sensor 2 is the input for engine RPMS

However Cam angle sensor 1 is the middle sensor Cam angle sensor 2 is the back sensor But acording to everyone whoe hooks up to standalones they use #2 Cam angle sensor (the rear one) for TDC sync pulse

If you look at the crank gear it haves 12 teeth picked up by regular mag sensor 2 wire reluctor sensor

but it is actualy reads as a 24 teeth sensor because we have a four stroke engine which means the crank turns 720° for over complete firing of all the engine cylinders the Cam angle sensor/cam gear only turns 360° for every 720° of crank turns because the cam gear haves 24 teeth so it is the sync event!

So when the Cam angle sensor fires & the Crank angle sensor fires at the same time that is the event that sets timing then after every 4 teeth on the crank trigger the firing event of each cylinder in firing order.

WOW!! Thanks for the very complete response. I would have really liked to have it days ago. I ordered everything for Hall sensors, because everyone was saying that our car had hall sensors. So we are now rigging up a hall sensor on the cam gear, because that is what i have the parts for. It is very frustrating, but i am glad that this very complete answer is now on the forums and hopefully it will help future people who are modifying their cars. Thanks again.

 

[annoyingrob]

OK,
They are not a 24 tooth and 1 tooth. There are 2 single tooth gears.

D'oh. I knew that. Why did I think it was a 24 tooth wheel.

 

[Evilempire1.3JZ-GTE]

D'oh. I knew that. Why did I think it was a 24 tooth wheel.

lol

Yea you set the ECU for rising pulse then fire on trailing edge the pulse does dip negitive but it fires on the trail of the rise of the pulse

(------^v-------signal) so your ecu will fire between ^v in the middle of that pulse.

You configure your ECU for 24 teeth ( not missing tooth)
you configure your ECU for sync event for the firing from a second mag sensor from your cam

Both sensors are MAGNETIC 2 wire with a wire shielding grounded only on one side to avoid capacitating the wire & inducting more noise/EMI. (only ground one side of the CAS sensor shielding very important especialy for knock sensors also because alot of people can screw this up unknowingly especialy when extending the harness for the 1JZ to put in a MA70).

There is no HALL effect 3 wire sensor in our supra except I think the ABS sensor is a 3 wire set up at least from what I noticed on some A340E auto trans from japan.

 

[viperkillertt]

lol

Yea you set the ECU for rising pulse then fire on trailing edge the pulse does dip negitive but it fires on the trail of the rise of the pulse

(------^v-------signal) so your ecu will fire between ^v in the middle of that pulse.

You configure your ECU for 24 teeth ( not missing tooth)
you configure your ECU for sync event for the firing from a second mag sensor from your cam

Both sensors are MAGNETIC 2 wire with a wire shielding grounded only on one side to avoid capacitating the wire & inducting more noise/EMI. (only ground one side of the CAS sensor shielding very important especialy for knock sensors also because alot of people can screw this up unknowingly especialy when extending the harness for the 1JZ to put in a MA70).

There is no HALL effect 3 wire sensor in our supra except I think the ABS sensor is a 3 wire set up at least from what I noticed on some A340E auto trans from japan.

Once again, thanks for you great input. Now that it is on here, hopefully it assists others. I have ordered the correct parts for a VR sensor circuit, but it wont be here until like Wednesday, i go back on Monday, so that is life. I am going to loose my whole summer with my supra It has been a month and i wont be able to get back again until the 1st week of September.

 

[nissota]

My NA-T runs great on the megasquirt. It took some time to get the maps optimized for stuff like cold start and fuel economy but worth the $136 I paid for it and all I have learnt during the process.

I did it the easy way. I could not bother will all the issues I have heard about using 24/2 vr triggering. So much simpler with the edis kit. I mated the 36-1 wheel the the crank pulley and rigged up the vr sensor bracket and it works great.

I have since installed it on four other toyotas with EDIS. Works without issues every time.

I will be going to the dyno in September. I have not had time to pull it down and put in a proper clutch and thicker headgasket... been busy with school.

I am using 7M 440s with 10:1 compression 2J. Let me know if you need any help with maps later on.

 

[viperkillertt]

My NA-T runs great on the megasquirt. It took some time to get the maps optimized for stuff like cold start and fuel economy but worth the $136 I paid for it and all I have learnt during the process.

I did it the easy way. I could not bother will all the issues I have heard about using 24/2 vr triggering. So much simpler with the edis kit. I mated the 36-1 wheel the the crank pulley and rigged up the vr sensor bracket and it works great.

I have since installed it on four other toyotas with EDIS. Works without issues every time.

I will be going to the dyno in September. I have not had time to pull it down and put in a proper clutch and thicker headgasket... been busy with school.

I am using 7M 440s with 10:1 compression 2J. Let me know if you need any help with maps later on.

Sweet! Thanks for the info. I would really like to see the installs of these edis's. Do you have pix of them on the cams? Thanks!

 

[nissota]

Sweet! Thanks for the info. I would really like to see the installs of these edis's. Do you have pix of them on the cams? Thanks!

There is no cam installation, it just uses a crank trigger and some ford ignition components, go to ebay and search or "EDIS 6"

Here is the link to my thread:
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59168

Here is details regarding EDIS installations:
http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra_Ignition_Hardware_Manual.htm#edis

Universal trigger wheels:
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/trigger-wheels-c-48.html?osCsid=a3c9c3df008588b3bba0a55952ee9b07
or
http://trigger-wheels.com/store/index1.html

Fitting guide:
http://trigger-wheels.com/store/index1.html

 

[foreverpsycotic]

Viper, are you making a custom harness, or mating it with the stock harness using the stock sensors? I would not mind a megasquirt system at all.

 

[viperkillertt]

Viper, are you making a custom harness, or mating it with the stock harness using the stock sensors? I would not mind a megasquirt system at all.

I am using the stock harness. It is mostly wired up, but i am just having a few issues, as expected

 

[foreverpsycotic]

How much for you to recreate that setup for me?

 

[viperkillertt]

How much for you to recreate that setup for me?

I am doing my best to document most everything that i am doing on this site so i can help people do it in the future. My buddy mike has been helping me with it. He actually doesn't believe in putting up his work. He did his megasquirt system 2 years ago and has had awesome results. I will document pretty much everything once i actually have it running. I am pretty good at going back and updating my old posts.