I bet you have stories to tell! That is, if we can get past the front porch without you chasing us off with the broomIJ.;1832401 said:The Brass Days were even better again
-AM3
10 reason MK3 Supras are garbage
- Thread starter zSP3CTERz
- Start date
-AM3
I joined SM less than 5 years ago, but from around '07-'10 were hands down my favorite years.. it's probably just my view of things, but it seemed more eventful, and I dunno just overall different (again, that might be due to my life being much different then).
why did I google the feltching thing...
also has hommer ever finished that horrible dash thingy? (poor car...)
also has hommer ever finished that horrible dash thingy? (poor car...)
LMAO I was in a parking lot the other day and saw an Infinti G37 and guess what it had...
Yeah a Nissan Fanboy that isn't familiar with his own company...
Oh and I am pretty sure Porsche is still producing cars with burgundy interior..
Yeah a Nissan Fanboy that isn't familiar with his own company...
Oh and I am pretty sure Porsche is still producing cars with burgundy interior..
ifyouaint1sturlast
Banned Scammer - I'm whitemike.
Supracentral;1831592 said:
Yet I've seen people who didn't even know how a 4-stroke engine works learn how to build performance cars in less than 2 years. Just because they applied themselves and had the brain capacity to handle the information.
I think people still think rebuilding an engine is like what it was in 1970 or something.
ifyouaint1sturlast
Banned Scammer - I'm whitemike.
Dylan JZ;1831292 said:
Agreed. More than likely it would also cost more, and there would be less idiots working on it, more aftermarket support, etc..
te72;1830996 said:
I've never wanted to put anything in my signature more than I want to right now. You win. I feel that everyone on the boards should read this single statement.
I'm not one to purposely offend, and I probably won't considering the reality that there's an undeniable link between people with failed 7M's and people who aren't on SM because it's "got too many rules." However, if you're on your 3rd head gasket - you should not be working on a car, or anything with more technology than a skateboard.
Appears to me to be the Recaros that Honda used in a number of JDM models. Or are you looking at something else? I can't really tell...SupraPieces;1832923 said:
Thanks man. I know I don't know enough about them (despite the vast knowledge on here) to really consider myself smart enough to own a 7m. Plus, I'm not dedicated enough to keep one running in the event I didn't build it properly in the first place I'd rather drive than work on my cars... hence, JZ in my car, 6m in my other car.ifyouaint1sturlast;1832931 said:
ifyouaint1sturlast;1832931 said:
I respect the hell out of those who build the 7M, and more so than that those that admit it has its shortcomings/work to fix them. The thing that gets left out of these arguments and even many of my own sarcastic statements is much of what te72 was getting at with his comment, and that is simply that the 7Ms reliability and potential is hardcore related to how much time and effort the owners put in coupled with knowledge and experience. Now, the same can indeed be said for any other motor, but the emphasis here is far more severe (and I'd argue that this is not an opinion but a fact; hate me if you will, but I've seen too much of it.)
My decision to swap was based heavily on my lack of faith in both local enthusiasts, local mechanics, and ultimately myself after a lot of research and real-world examples. I just didn't have faith in those around me, and seeing as how I had never rebuilt a 7M, I honestly did not want to spend all of that money on something that hinged on chance. I am not much of a gambler, and I felt strongly that the gamble for the J-series (even without knowing details beyond mileage and what I could see inside the motor) was less.
Thus, here we are.
I've heard just about all the insults there are in the book about owning a 1J: "how's that TQless wonder, why didn't you go with a 2J, why not stay 7M when it has .5L more displacement," and the list goes on forever and ever. The same goes for the 7M and the inherent sayings/jokes/insults about them. The thing is, I never thought of it as a 'this motor vs that motor kind of thing.' It was in all honestly just my preference, and I thought the 2.5L 1J powered cars in Japan were pretty awesome and thought it would be neat to go with something I felt I could maintain and modify whilst making me happy every time I walked out the front door. It has always done that for me, so my regret is minimal. Admittedly, at times I'll consider if not going to a 2J was the right decision, but at that point it's about power goals, and mine have always been ~500whp.
Everyone on this forum has their own story about their MK3 and the reasoning behind why they have done the things that have brought them to this point. At the end of the day, as long as your project makes you proud, then you likely did a damn fine job. Are there exceptions? Yeah, there are... Always have been.
Some day when I'm older and not as immature, I'll likely look back with regret because what mattered the most was that we were all enjoying ourselves, petrol powered Japanese classics, and the camaraderie contained therein. Sadly, even though I know for sure that day will come, these sorts of discussions will continue, but that's not something that will change.
If you read all of that, well thank you for caring enough to make it through.
Dylan JZ;1833152 said:
After reading this Dylan i feel i should stand up and start a slow clap
But this part stuck out to me the most and i agree 100% with you
ifyouaint1sturlast
Banned Scammer - I'm whitemike.
Sometimes people swap just because they want to.
I had a perfectly good running, built, big turbo 7M.. I went 2JZ because.. well.. I'm a JZ fanboy. Never really meant to build up the 7M, I wanted a 2JZ since day one. I just couldn't wait and ended up dumping money into it.
Guess what? Never blew a head gasket even at 30psi on a big boy Precision turbo. I guess those who blow 2, 3, 4 of them just got the rotten motors from the factory huh?
I had a perfectly good running, built, big turbo 7M.. I went 2JZ because.. well.. I'm a JZ fanboy. Never really meant to build up the 7M, I wanted a 2JZ since day one. I just couldn't wait and ended up dumping money into it.
Guess what? Never blew a head gasket even at 30psi on a big boy Precision turbo. I guess those who blow 2, 3, 4 of them just got the rotten motors from the factory huh?
Turbo Habanero;1833157 said:After reading this Dylan i feel i should stand up and start a slow clap
But this part stuck out to me the most and i agree 100% with you
I appreciate the sentiments, but that's the truth IMO.
ifyouaint1sturlast;1833169 said:
I never had that chance.. the day I bought the car, the HG blew (or was already blown and the seller did a great job of hiding it), and it rod-knocked as a result on the way back home (about 30miles). Instead of going back and demanding a refund, something inside prompted me to keep the car and consider the options.
Dunno about the bad motors from the factory. I think it most likely has more to do how a specific motor was treated over the span of its life.
As has already been said, the 7M can be a great platform, given enough patience and dedication from the owner. Most new MK3 owners don't have this, in my opinion. I have absolutely nothing against the 7M, but I plan on swapping it out for something else when I begin my Supra build. Perhaps it's an inherent laziness, but I would rather not deal with a temperamental 7M if I plan on making big power numbers. But, that's just my opinion. I respect, fully, those who have put in the time (and money), to reach the goals that they wanted from their motor.
Jetfixr757;1833437 said:
Nah, he just likes the cheap Toyotas (corolla, etc). It's the equivelent of a ricer civic owner bitching about an NSX...
IMO, there are basically four categories of Mk3 owners - and only two of them are common.
The *most* common are the folks that buy a Supra and keep it stock. They'll run into the occasional problem, but it's rarely going to be serious. If something as major as a BHG or rod knock rears it's ugly head, they'll scrap the car. These folks may be the most common in the real world, but they are not as common online.
The second group is in it for the low entry cost. They'll pick up a Supra (often one from the first group), rarely check for neglected maintenance, put on some power mods, push up the boost, break stuff, fix it poorly, break it again - or other parts, and complain bitterly about how weak the Mk3 Supra is by comparison to... well, anything else. This is the group that is responsible for the reputation of the 7M. It's also the vast majority of the online community.
Some of that second group will continue with the car, and end up with something built right. They separate into two distinct groups at this point.
The first group of survivors are the 7M diehards. They take what they have learned breaking an engine - or two, or six, and apply it to building a high power, high reliability, 7M. They are extremely touchy about the reputation built for their engine by the guys in the second group. They have usually sunk a lot of time, energy, and money into their car. They will rarely face a problem that cannot be dealt with, and tend to think most 7M owners are doing it wrong.
The second group of survivors are the JZ swappers. They have various reasons for dumping the 7M platform. They also have also put a lot of time, energy, and money into their car, and as such, will rarely face a problem that cannot be dealt with. They tend to be touchy about how much money it really cost them to swap engines - getting a straight answer about this is near impossible. They tend to think the JZ platform is superior, which is no surprise, as they wouldn't have gone to all the trouble of swapping if there was no advantage to be found.
The bottom line is that both groups of survivors will have nice, reliable cars, that rarely have issues, and both will wholeheartedly debate their choice of power plant, using their vehicle as evidence in the debate. And despite what they say, the reason they have nice, reliable cars has nothing to do with the power plant, and everything to do with the fact that they are survivors, who have learned how to build, drive, and enjoy a Supra.
The *most* common are the folks that buy a Supra and keep it stock. They'll run into the occasional problem, but it's rarely going to be serious. If something as major as a BHG or rod knock rears it's ugly head, they'll scrap the car. These folks may be the most common in the real world, but they are not as common online.
The second group is in it for the low entry cost. They'll pick up a Supra (often one from the first group), rarely check for neglected maintenance, put on some power mods, push up the boost, break stuff, fix it poorly, break it again - or other parts, and complain bitterly about how weak the Mk3 Supra is by comparison to... well, anything else. This is the group that is responsible for the reputation of the 7M. It's also the vast majority of the online community.
Some of that second group will continue with the car, and end up with something built right. They separate into two distinct groups at this point.
The first group of survivors are the 7M diehards. They take what they have learned breaking an engine - or two, or six, and apply it to building a high power, high reliability, 7M. They are extremely touchy about the reputation built for their engine by the guys in the second group. They have usually sunk a lot of time, energy, and money into their car. They will rarely face a problem that cannot be dealt with, and tend to think most 7M owners are doing it wrong.
The second group of survivors are the JZ swappers. They have various reasons for dumping the 7M platform. They also have also put a lot of time, energy, and money into their car, and as such, will rarely face a problem that cannot be dealt with. They tend to be touchy about how much money it really cost them to swap engines - getting a straight answer about this is near impossible. They tend to think the JZ platform is superior, which is no surprise, as they wouldn't have gone to all the trouble of swapping if there was no advantage to be found.
The bottom line is that both groups of survivors will have nice, reliable cars, that rarely have issues, and both will wholeheartedly debate their choice of power plant, using their vehicle as evidence in the debate. And despite what they say, the reason they have nice, reliable cars has nothing to do with the power plant, and everything to do with the fact that they are survivors, who have learned how to build, drive, and enjoy a Supra.
Another note on the power plant cost bit.
If you take a decent condition Mk3, and build it into a reliable, high power machine, the 7M *will* be cheaper.
However, the question of how much, and whether it's worth worrying about, is another matter. If you are going all in, you'll be building an engine, new clutch, driveline upgrades, bigger brakes, wheels, stickier tires, big turbo, external wastegate, fat intercooler, etc, etc.
The cost difference between starting with a block, crank, and head from your 7M, or buying a block, crank, and head for a JZ, will be a couple thousand $$$ at most. That figure, when looked at as a percentage of the entire build cost, will be a VERY small percentage.
If you take a decent condition Mk3, and build it into a reliable, high power machine, the 7M *will* be cheaper.
However, the question of how much, and whether it's worth worrying about, is another matter. If you are going all in, you'll be building an engine, new clutch, driveline upgrades, bigger brakes, wheels, stickier tires, big turbo, external wastegate, fat intercooler, etc, etc.
The cost difference between starting with a block, crank, and head from your 7M, or buying a block, crank, and head for a JZ, will be a couple thousand $$$ at most. That figure, when looked at as a percentage of the entire build cost, will be a VERY small percentage.