1.5jzgte ECU/harness/Control questions and ideas. Shoot me down or lift me up!

[Nghty89]

Updated this post as of 3/10/11. Responses to myself are in bold.

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Ok, After much searching and picking up pieces here and there, I figured I would throw out ideas and see what answers I get. None you fool. Ok, I actually got some awesome answers from a lot of people. If you are reading this, THANK YOU!!!!! :bigthumb:


My plan: To build a 1.5jzgte engine. 1jzgte head/manifolds/twins + 2jzge block. Why not T70 single? ... oh wait... what's this in my garage now? :naughty:

Originally I was going to run 2jzge-t, so I have all electronics to run a turbo 3.0L I6.

My ideal would be to run the 1.5jz off the 7m electronics until I get my megasquirt solution up and running. This would allow me to run 440's, AFM, CPS, Coilpack, Ignitor, knock sensors - basically the whole plug and play shebang from the 2jzge-t. - Not possible with the 1jzgte. How naive of me. lol

I have been told the 1jzgte exhaust cam will not fit the 7mgte cps. And I know the 2jz exhaust cam would have to be machined to fit the 1jz head, which in theory would allow me to run the 7mgte cps off the 2jz cam in the 1jz head... Or I'm just nuts. - I'll go with the last explanation here.

Someone has mentioned I can use the Aristo 2jzgte harness/ecu to run the 3.0L 1.5jz and still be able to use the body harness for my mkiii - is this correct? - Yes, I just hadn't found the '2jzgte into an MA70 body' threads/write-ups yet. Of course it's doable, but probably more expensive and annoying in the end vs a Megasquirt setup.

I would even like to make a harness from scratch in order to use fresh wire and connections as well as be able to run different lengths to allow a good wire tuck. - Now there's a good idea finally!

So far, apart from bothering different members for their ideas, I have not found a thread putting this in a better light and I still remain a little.. incomplete in my understanding. Any information would be greatly appreciated in my quest for a worth-while solution. I want to avoid going standalone just yet and would prefer as plug/play as possible without destroying the bank. I have experience with wiring and also have all diagrams ready in case I need to create my own harness. I just need to figure out how to hook up to which ECU to control things relatively smoothly for the initial break-in period. - MS3 is perfectly capable of auto-tuning a nice idle and even a fairly driveable setup with the right sensors and input. Worse comes to worse, I have a local buddy (White Zombie, who got it from another member - all props to this guy for the 1jz map! If I could only remember his forum name though....) with a nice map I can use off the bat for break-in.


**Erased the last bit as it was garbage**


Just to re-cap, I was only able to find all of this through the assistance of those in this thread and others, as well as my own persistent searching and questioning. But damn was it annoying at first. Thanks again to those who assisted me so far, and probably will in the near future as this build is within weeks of being thrown into overdrive and many parts ordered. :love:

 

[Nghty89]

http://www.supras.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=34&Itemid=50

Bingo, I really like the idea of making my own... Now I just need to figure out which electronics to use. Still researching...

 

[Nghty89]

Megasquirt sounds like the best idea now, considering all I need is the trigger wheel for the crank sensor, AND I can ditch the CPS. May be more than plug and play and a little more than I wanted to spend originally, it just means I would have to accelerate my plans.

 

[wildfire0310]

not able to help with your wiring questions.

But about the CAS/ trigger wheel.

I would go with a trigger wheel and setup. The cost of the wheel and extras would most likely be near what it would cost to machine down the CAM. Also if you haven't already order the MS, I know DIYautotune sell trigger wheel for as little as 25 and tops out at only $32. You only have to find the VR sensor.

some how-to info on trigger wheel and Ms::
http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/trigger_wheels_index.htm

 

[Nghty89]

Awesome, thank you! I had run across that last week when I was first researching Megasquirt. It looks like I may be going this route from the beginning, BUT I still need to figure out what I am going to do about the base tune and that first 20 minutes to seal the rings... I'm sure I can find/make one, but I will cross that hurdle when I come to it.

 

[wildfire0310]

Awesome, thank you! I had run across that last week when I was first researching Megasquirt. It looks like I may be going this route from the beginning, BUT I still need to figure out what I am going to do about the base tune and that first 20 minutes to seal the rings... I'm sure I can find/make one, but I will cross that hurdle when I come to it.

Well I would shoot the guys at DIY an e-mail cause they may have a base map for 1jz or 2jz(7M may work, at least for idling), to get you a good idle map. That or maybe see if someone on the forums who is running an MS can give you their map. It maybe rough but all you really need is a good set of idle settings. The rest can be tuned nicely with the Autotune, and some seat time.

 

[te72]

Good Lord man... I have enough headaches with my car with just a more or less *simple* 1jz. Granted, my car is the the metal embodiment of the devil sometimes, but it smells like you're just asking for a lot of head scratching here. I'm all for ingenuity, but if you're looking to build a project, I'd just stick to one motor or the other. If I had a 1j on the way, I'd just build it to do what the 1j does well: rev like crazy and build really nice mid-top end torque.

If I were wanting big power out of it, I'd probably go with the 2j idea you had. Just build a solid bottom end, good flowing head, and take your time putting it together to last. Once you have a solid engine in place, then worry about the tuning.

 

[Nghty89]

Good Lord man... I have enough headaches with my car with just a more or less *simple* 1jz. Granted, my car is the the metal embodiment of the devil sometimes, but it smells like you're just asking for a lot of head scratching here. I'm all for ingenuity, but if you're looking to build a project, I'd just stick to one motor or the other. If I had a 1j on the way, I'd just build it to do what the 1j does well: rev like crazy and build really nice mid-top end torque.

If I were wanting big power out of it, I'd probably go with the 2j idea you had. Just build a solid bottom end, good flowing head, and take your time putting it together to last. Once you have a solid engine in place, then worry about the tuning.

As it sits, it's really not complicated at all. The only part about it is the electronics. All the parts and pieces and things are good to go and easy. I was looking into different ways to do the electronics, but as it stands it seems I'll be using the MS system from the get go.

I'm sure I can locate a base map, or make one. I only really need to figure out my ignition situation right now, and then everything will be good to go. I already have a pre-built kit picked out, I just don't quite know what to use for the actualy spark (cop, etc). I'm still researching that.

I appreciate any and all info so far guys, opinions included! : p

 

[aznboik1mva]

Theres a guy on the forums that has your exact plan 1.5jz. the 2jzge bottom end and 1jz running stock 1jz twins. im pretty sure that he has the mahogoney brown supra build thread

 

[Nghty89]

Theres a guy on the forums that has your exact plan 1.5jz. the 2jzge bottom end and 1jz running stock 1jz twins. im pretty sure that he has the mahogoney brown supra build thread

Yes, he's running a standalone, or was it the aristo harness/ecu? I can't remember. It's not the mechanicals that are difficult, it's just the engine management. But so far so good. It'll be a few weeks before I can get down and dirty with it actually in the car.

 

[wildfire0310]

As it sits, it's really not complicated at all. The only part about it is the electronics. All the parts and pieces and things are good to go and easy. I was looking into different ways to do the electronics, but as it stands it seems I'll be using the MS system from the get go.

I'm sure I can locate a base map, or make one. I only really need to figure out my ignition situation right now, and then everything will be good to go. I already have a pre-built kit picked out, I just don't quite know what to use for the actualy spark (cop, etc). I'm still researching that.

I appreciate any and all info so far guys, opinions included! : p

Well your spark is fairly simple. Unless your planing to run the new MS3 board. Your going to have to do wasted spark. The MS1 and MS2 only have 4 total outputs of spark. The MS3 has the ability to have 8 spark outputs to run sequential.

 

[Nghty89]

I was indeed planning on running MS3, I just haven't had much time to read up past the trigger wheels for the crank sensor. I still need to decide on what coils/spark output I'm going to use to keep my setup clean and simple. IIRC, the lexus IS300 c.o.p. setup can be used in conjunction with MS3 can't it?

I hear horror stories about the 1jz c.o.p. and my head isn't coming with them anyways so it'll let me branch out.

 

[wildfire0310]

I was indeed planning on running MS3, I just haven't had much time to read up past the trigger wheels for the crank sensor. I still need to decide on what coils/spark output I'm going to use to keep my setup clean and simple. IIRC, the lexus IS300 c.o.p. setup can be used in conjunction with MS3 can't it?

I hear horror stories about the 1jz c.o.p. and my head isn't coming with them anyways so it'll let me branch out.

Never looked at the IS300 C.o.p but should work without any issues. You may have to do some leg work to get the Dwell. In the Miata world we have been running the Toyota 1zz C.O.P with great success on the MS for years now.


BTW I am jealous of the MS3 chip set. Along with the MS3X. Everything I go get lunch with a buddy from DiY, I drool over the MS3 chip.

 

[Nghty89]

I just got a little more information from a reliable 1jz buddy locally. Nytefyre mentioned I could use the 1jz ecu/electronics because it is MAP based and won't care if the engine is 2.5L or 3.0L... which got us talking... The 1jz runs off of 2 cps sensors and 1 crank position sensor, correct? Does the 2jzge block have the spot for the crank position sensor? The 1jz head I ordered today will have the spots for the 2 cps'es. I will be looking into this today when I have time.

 

[Nghty89]

Man after re-reading this thread I'm kind of laughing at myself. But I guess knowledge comes with time and research.

I decided to go Megasquirt 3 after all, after some good advice and a swift kick in the pants by White Zombie.

Still looking into how exactly everything will play out, but I have found that MS3 will run the stock crank signal (VR style) in either a 12-0 (stock) or 12-1 (grind off one of the 12 crank timing points on the timing gear that the belt rides on) configuration, and MS3 will be able to use this. I can also use the stock rear cam sensor on the 1jzgte for cylinder #1's TDC point, and if I chose to use the sensor closer to the front as well (dual cam sensors in MS3 is possible), that cam sensor is for cylinder #6 TDC, IIRC.

To answer my own question just above this post as well: the 96+ (OBDII) 2jzge's do use the same crank position sensor as the 1jz/2jzgte, but the earlier ones (OBDI) do not so their oil pumps will not have the needed location for the sensor. On top of that, I will need a stock 1jz/2jzgte timing gear with the points for any system I choose to use unless I go with a bolt on EDIS6 36-1 wheel in front of the crank pulley with a custom mounted VR sensor. If anyone needs that timing gear number, since I had one hell of a time finding it, here it is:

1jzgte/2jzgte (same for both motors, 2jzge IS different, see picture below) Crank Timing Gear - Toyota p/n: 13052-46010 ------------- Around $70-90

The 2jzge timing gear IS different -

I will update this thread as I go and once I have enough compiled and have my engine in and running, I think I'll take the time to sit down and do a how-to for the 1.5jz on MS3 in a MKIII. :naughty:

 

[Bigzavs]

Man after re-reading this thread I'm kind of laughing at myself. But I guess knowledge comes with time and research.

I decided to go Megasquirt 3 after all, after some good advice and a swift kick in the pants by White Zombie.

Still looking into how exactly everything will play out, but I have found that MS3 will run the stock crank signal (VR style) in either a 12-0 (stock) or 12-1 (grind off one of the 12 crank timing points on the timing gear that the belt rides on) configuration, and MS3 will be able to use this. I can also use the stock rear cam sensor on the 1jzgte for cylinder #1's TDC point, and if I chose to use the sensor closer to the front as well (dual cam sensors in MS3 is possible), that cam sensor is for cylinder #6 TDC, IIRC.

To answer my own question just above this post as well: the 96+ (OBDII) 2jzge's do use the same crank position sensor as the 1jz/2jzgte, but the earlier ones (OBDI) do not so their oil pumps will not have the needed location for the sensor. On top of that, I will need a stock 1jz/2jzgte timing gear with the points for any system I choose to use unless I go with a bolt on EDIS6 36-1 wheel in front of the crank pulley with a custom mounted VR sensor. If anyone needs that timing gear number, since I had one hell of a time finding it, here it is:

1jzgte/2jzgte (same for both motors, 2jzge IS different, see picture below) Crank Timing Gear - Toyota p/n: 13052-46010 ------------- Around $70-90

The 2jzge timing gear IS different - View attachment 49489

I will update this thread as I go and once I have enough compiled and have my engine in and running, I think I'll take the time to sit down and do a how-to for the 1.5jz on MS3 in a MKIII. :naughty:

pretty sure a buddy of mine is gonna sell the MS3 he has thats already wired up for a 1JZ if you're interested, shoot me a pm and ill talk to him

 

[Nghty89]

PM Sent

 

[OneJArpus]

@Nghty89 - The 2JZGE Does NOT have the provisions for the Crank Sensor depending on the year. You will need the 1JZ/2JZ oil pump for the provision + the sensor if you do not have it or if you may even need it to run the MS3. But I dont think it would make a difference if you went full MS3 n used their trigger wheel n VR sensor

 

[IBoughtASupra]

I believe I will be making a How To 1.5JZ thread soon.

 

[Nghty89]

@Nghty89 - The 2JZGE Does NOT have the provisions for the Crank Sensor depending on the year. You will need the 1JZ/2JZ oil pump for the provision + the sensor if you do not have it or if you may even need it to run the MS3. But I dont think it would make a difference if you went full MS3 n used their trigger wheel n VR sensor

That's why I said some of the OBDII 2jzge's do have it, just depends on the vehicle/year it was in. Those specific oil pumps will work just as well as the 1jz/2jz oil pumps. They all (ge and gte depending on year) had the crank trigger too for the crank sensor, which I can use either of those with MS3, I just have to tell it which trigger wheel I have. All the crank/cam sensors are the same between them though, just not the wheels. *Double Checking this right now as I post* <- See the info below.


Cam Sensor Cross-Reference per rockauto.com (pretty reliable from all the times I've used them.):

LEXUS GS300 (1998 - 2005)
LEXUS IS300 (2001 - 2005)
LEXUS IS300 SPORTCROSS (2002 - 2005)
LEXUS SC300 (1998 - 2000)
TOYOTA CELICA GTS (2000 - 2005)
TOYOTA COROLLA XRS (2005 - 2006)
TOYOTA MATRIX XRS (2003 - 2006)
TOYOTA SUPRA (1993 - 1998)
TOYOTA SUPRA TWIN TURBO (1996 - 1998)


Crank Sensor Cross-Reference per rockauto.com:
LEXUS GS300 (1996 - 2005)
LEXUS IS300 (2001 - 2005)
LEXUS IS300 SPORTCROSS (2002 - 2005)
LEXUS SC300 (1996 - 2000)
TOYOTA SUPRA (1996 - 1998)

---------- Post added at 03:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:39 PM ----------

I believe I will be making a How To 1.5JZ thread soon.

Yeah, as much info as I have had to dig up, it's been a little crazy on some of the small things. Let me know if you need any of my notes, I've got a pretty good bible going! : p

PM Sent to you IBought, about parts.