U.S. Bill H.R. 6166

Supracentral

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Mar 30, 2005
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So you don't think your government is out of control? You don't think that the bills being passed are aimed at US citizens, they are just aimed at the terrorists over in the middle east, right?

WRONG!

Here's the direct text that plainly states HR 6166 is not aimed at "foreign terrorists" whatsoever. It is aimed clearly at YOU.

Subchapter 7 Section 950v Subsection 27 of HR 6166
"Any person subject to this chapter who with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign power, collects or attempts to collect information by clandestine means or while acting under false pretenses, for the purpose of conveying such information to an enemy of the United States, or one of the co-belligerents of the enemy, shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a military commission under this chapter may direct."

Subchapter 7 Subsection 26 of section 950v. of HR 6166
"Any person subject to this chapter who, in breach of an allegiance or duty to the United States, knowingly and intentionally aids an enemy of the United States, or one of the co-belligerents of the enemy, shall be punished as a military commission under this chapter may direct."

On the face of it, it is easy to go "Good. No quarter to the enemy." I will admit, that's the gut reaction. Only when you look at it critically does it really hit you. These people are serious, and this bill is directed at Americans.

Think about this. The enemy, by very nature of being an enemy and foreign national holds no allegiance to the United States to begin with. How can he "breach of an allegiance or duty to the United States"? The answer, once put that way, is obvious. He can't, but you can.

So the next thing that comes to mind is that the Supreme Court will slap this thing down. But that's probably not going to happen either. Read the full text of the bill and you'll realize that safeguards against that were built in as well.

It's distinctly possible that this law is is beyond fixing via a legal means.

Think about that people.

Don't believe it? I've attached a copy of HR6166 that I got directly from the Government Printing Office.

Look at this with a critical mind folks.

Under this bill, the president or his designee can simply decide that someone poses a threat, call them an unlawful enemy combatant, and lock them away. Yes, they are entitled to a determination by the Combatant Status Review Tribunal of whether they in fact meet the definition of unlawful enemy combatant. But the law doesn't impose a time limit. The government could simply postpone that hearing indefinitely, and the detainee would have the status of "awaiting such determination," and not be given access to federal court.

That means that if the government decides never to try an individual before a commission, but just holds them in prison indefinitely, there is no way that they can ever get a hearing on whether they are being held illegally-- because they are not in fact a terrorist; or a hearing on whether they are being treated illegally-- because they have been abused or tortured or subjected to one of the Administration's "alternative sets of procedures"-- i.e. - torture.

This is truly scary shit folks. Wake up.
 

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Joel W.

Just A Jedi
Nov 7, 2005
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JAV: Before they needed "evidence" to secure a search warrant, under this bill, they do not need any "proof" to search at all. They can do what they want and you have no rights to object or protect yourself.
 

Supra Blues

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Mar 30, 2005
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Supramania
Here's the direct text that plainly states HR 6166 is not aimed at "foreign terrorists" whatsoever. It is aimed clearly at YOU.

Subchapter 7 Section 950v Subsection 27 of HR 6166
"Any person subject to this chapter who with intent or reason to believe that it is to be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign power, collects or attempts to collect information by clandestine means or while acting under false pretenses, for the purpose of conveying such information to an enemy of the United States, or one of the co-belligerents of the enemy, shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a military commission under this chapter may direct."

I don't fall into this category.

If you want to call it directed at Americans, fine. But it is only directed at Americans who wish to cause harm to American or its citizens (Tim MacVeigh, 9-11 terrorists, etc, not average joe citizen) and/or through clandestine operations/means provide enemies of America classified or sensitive material.

If you go to work, abide by the laws of the U.S., pay your taxes, etc, this bill will NEVER EVER come close to touching you or harming you in anyway shape or form. It's that simple.

I am a critical thinker and have a critical mind and the like, and I don't read anymore into this, other than to define who or what type of person is an enemy of the state and to define that person's punishment.
 

Joel W.

Just A Jedi
Nov 7, 2005
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The term I think is "reasonably beliefs" vs "probable cause"

What is the definition of reasonably believe??? It is what ever they want it to be without having to prove it unlike probable cause where they needed to show proof in order to obtain a search warrant....

A very big difference...

Anyone who now questions the guberments actions or policies is now considered a "threat" to them and may as well be the enemy..
 

Supracentral

Active Member
Mar 30, 2005
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Supra Blues said:
I don't fall into this category.

Ah, there's the rub. What if someone says you do? Where's your protection under the law? Under this law, once accused, you have no rights and no way to defend yourself.

That's the point here Blues... It's not the way this legislation can be used against the true criminal. It's the way the legislation can be misused against the non criminal.

Supra Blues said:
If you go to work, abide by the laws of the U.S., pay your taxes, etc, this bill will NEVER EVER come close to touching you or harming you in anyway shape or form. It's that simple.

I find that statement disturbingly naive.

Supra Blues said:
I am a critical thinker and have a critical mind and the like, and I don't read anymore into this, other than to define who or what type of person is an enemy of the state and to define that person's punishment.

What defines "enemy of the state"? What specific activities? What form of free speech? If you speak out against a presidency, or a specific branch of government, and that particular entity is currently engaged in anti-terrror activity, might not your "noise" be considered disrputive to the process? What's to stop goverment from declaring you an enemy and locking your noisy ass up?

The tyranny of evil men is not a fantasy, it's a reality that history has shown us time and time again.

Listen, laws do not grant rights or freedoms. The rights and freedoms we have are considered "self evident". They exist before the law. The law can either reaffirm and protect those rights, or remove them. That's the simple fact of the matter.

And this law severely limits quite a few of your rights, with no checks and balances. As a matter of fact, this law is specifically crafted to avoid any checks and balances.

Statisim is that particular form of collectivism in which individuals are forced to be subservient to government. Anyone in government who wants to extend his power, or anyone else (who has political influence) with agendas to advance, monopolies to secure, axes to grind or revenge to take -- can make claims that certain governmental actions would be in the national, state, society or even family interest and must 'therefore' take precedence over any individual interests whatsoever. With this 'justification' the people in government can proceed to enforce such claims, often enthusiastically, sometimes brutally, but always with impunity.

In 1933, shortly after Hitler's appointment as Chancellor of Germany, the German Parliament was set on fire by the Nazis and the Communists were blamed for this act of terrorism against the German people. Following the Nazi-inspired arson, Hitler exploited the outrage of the German citizens to arrogate to himself dictatorial powers, which he promised would be used to rid Germany of Communists. The next day, Chancellor Hitler demanded from the German cabinet an emergency decree which would enable him to deal decisively with the domestic crisis. President von Hindenburg signed the decree "for the Protection of the people and the State."

I'll bet many people sat around during the rise of the Third Reich and thought similar things. This is the rise of American statisim. Plain and simple.
 

Supracentral

Active Member
Mar 30, 2005
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And while we're at it, here's a little history for you. The Emergency Decree granted to Chancelor Hitler stated: "Restrictions on personal liberty, on the right of free expression of opinion, including freedom of the press; on the rights of assembly and association; and violations of the privacy of postal, telegraphic and telephonic communications and warrants for house searches, orders for confiscations as well as restrictions on property, are also permissible beyond the legal limits otherwise prescribed."

Sounds an awful lot like another set of emergency powers, no?

Immediately, there followed the first big Nazi roundup as truckloads of SA and SS roared through the streets bursting in on known Communist hangouts and barging into private homes. Thousands of Communists as well as Social Democrats and liberals were taken away into 'protective custody' to SA barracks where they were beaten and tortured.

I may not agree with certain peoples political view, but I sure as hell don't support that behavior.

"I don't have to worry about justice; my mission is only to destroy and exterminate, nothing more!" - Hermann Göring, March 3, 1933.

Remember your history folks, or you are doomed to repeat it.
 

Joel W.

Just A Jedi
Nov 7, 2005
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DT said:
Civil war, anyone?
I am in...I will not tolerate this police action.

lagged said:
we're fucked :)

Only if we do not do anything to stop it like educating yourselves on these topics, reading the new laws, calling your congress persons and the white house and let them know, that you know, what is really happening and you will not stand for it. (I have) :evil2:
http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/

Tell your friends, your family and the people next door what is really happening because they will not hear about it on the regular news...

Most of all, when they come to get you, Fight them back with force!!!