Supra Road Racing

[Van]

I've been lurking :squint:for sometime on this and a few other forums. I've even checked out Turbosupras.com and looked at the spec sheets for the MA70 Group A Supra.
What I'm interested in doing, is setting up my 87 turbo Supra for road racing on the weekends and then driving it on the streets to work during the week. How do I set this up? Is anyone else doing this. If so what are the pros and cons? Van

 

[bowsercake]

I've road raced a stock supra. I can tell you that some stiff suspension, sway bars, and a big radiator will help. Really though, before you buy any more parts, just invest in a second pair of wheels with some good street tires and get some seat time. R-Compounds only hide mistakes so don't get those until you have a lot of experience.

If you feel like you are really going to get into it get a second car, you're going to need to strip the hell out of a MKIII to get it competative.

 

[SupraDreamPDR]

Talk with the author of this thread...
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41975

 

[Van]

Hey,
Thanks for the info "Bowsercake". I was wondering the process for getting into road racing, and I agree with you that I need to see if I really want to make the commitment before I further mod the car.
SupraDreamPDR, that link is full of great tips! Thanks...

So, a little about the Supra. I've converted it from NA to T, added all the goods that make up the 87 turbo. Then I upgraded the driveline with a single Alu drive shaft, and rebuilt 3.91:1 LSD, (both from Jaws Gear), drive shaft loop; LIPP Alu intercooler piping kit, fully rebuilt 1990 7MGTE, and R154 (now with 5K on the ODO); all new front end components replaced four years ago and rear traction rod bushings replaced last year. New break rotors, reman calipers and stock MA70turbo pads all around. Technafit SS break lines and Beech Performance, master cylinder brace. TRD comp springs and KYBs all around (four years old). Rebuilt stock CT26. K&N cone filter on HK$ velocity tube, Lex AFM, 88 Auto ECU w/Unichip and HK$ SSQ BOV (vent to ATM); 935 3'' exhaust, RT cat and DP. Cooleeze Alu turbo inlet tube. The rest of the car is stock MA70.
It produces 274WHP and 290WTQ at 10psig (RRev Motorsports dyno). The inter cooler and radiator are both stock from the 1990 turbo parts car. The rad is 10 years old and looks every bit of it. I'm running on Kumho 711s, 225/50/zr16 front and 245/45/zr16 rear on the saw blades. 1/4mi best is 13.4 and 109.58 trap at PIR.
There is another track day on the 14th and 15th of March, I'm planning on being a participant. A local mechanic was recommended to me by the sports car club I joined, he's one that preps a few of the local road racers in Portland, and have him check out the car before race day. I'm going in tomorrow, hopefully he finds nothing wrong, but if so, there might be enough time to get the parts here and repairs done before track day.
I'm really lookin' forward to this. Van

Talk with the author of this thread...
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41975

I've road raced a stock supra. I can tell you that some stiff suspension, sway bars, and a big radiator will help. Really though, before you buy any more parts, just invest in a second pair of wheels with some good street tires and get some seat time. R-Compounds only hide mistakes so don't get those until you have a lot of experience.

If you feel like you are really going to get into it get a second car, you're going to need to strip the hell out of a MKIII to get it competative.

 

[SupraDreamPDR]

Good luck. Taking a Supra in a direction other than a straight line is always fun. Be sure to keep us updated. :biglaugh:

 

[Van]

Hey,
Supra checked out well. No leaks! I will have to tighten the belts, according to the tech. He also suggested I do nothing to the car since we will not be driving the car fast enough during the driving school.
If I decide to attend the High Performance Driving events during the season, that will require I look at making adjustments to tire pressure, and getting a video camera, as well as take a buddy along to do off track filming, so I can see how the car is reacting to driver inputs and the track. He said that PIR will keep us in the curves most of the length of it, so a heavy car will be a challenge to drive competitively.
Van

Good luck. Taking a Supra in a direction other than a straight line is always fun. Be sure to keep us updated. :biglaugh:

 

[prsrcokr]

Don't follow what's in that thread, that's guy's just a Newbie

Van, Any pics of the DS loop you have? I'm looking to do some sort of safety item like that as well. If you're going to be driving on track (you can't jump into road racing, you'll need a license and prepped car which requires experience and won't be road legal) I'd look at upgrading the stock pads before you go out there. It's not a necessity per se but remember this is a heavy car and the brakes will see temps they'll never see on the street. Especially when you're starting out as brake management comes into play (learning how to brake harder for shorter distances) as folks tend to brake too long and not hard enough, this adds more heat and more wear to the pads.

You're setup is very similar to mine (I have a AMS intercooler, 550s and Techtom 235/255 Bridgestones) Sounds like you've done some maintenace which is good, I started seeing some bushings showing play and replaced them. Also replaced the lower ones (no signifigant play) due to age and since a break there at speed could be much worse than a upper arm bushing. Check belts and coolant lines to make sure they're in good shape. Make sure whatever pads you use have plenty of material and fluids are full and clean (I run engine oil level a little higher than the full mark due to cornering forces and cambered turns)

Don't worry about competing with others, you're competing with yourself. I've pointed a Civic by and been told to pass by several Vettes (my car doesn't even pull well on straights) so it's all about learning and not what you're driving. You'll have fun at any speed and more fun as you learn. Go with the goal to learn, once you learn what you should be doing you'll be going fast before you know it.
Brian

 

[Van]

Brian,
Got my DS loop at JazzPro parts:http://www.jazzproparts.com/product_p/jpp-cee-3028.htm
There was a little work involved (drilling into the floor pan), but I feel much safer this way, than w/o a DS loop.
I'll let folks know how well the breaks perform. I'm using Neo Synthetic super DOT 610 racing break fluid. Van

Don't follow what's in that thread, that's guy's just a Newbie

Van, Any pics of the DS loop you have? I'm looking to do some sort of safety item like that as well. If you're going to be driving on track (you can't jump into road racing, you'll need a license and prepped car which requires experience and won't be road legal) I'd look at upgrading the stock pads before you go out there. It's not a necessity per se but remember this is a heavy car and the brakes will see temps they'll never see on the street. Especially when you're starting out as brake management comes into play (learning how to brake harder for shorter distances) as folks tend to brake too long and not hard enough, this adds more heat and more wear to the pads.

You're setup is very similar to mine (I have a AMS intercooler, 550s and Techtom 235/255 Bridgestones) Sounds like you've done some maintenace which is good, I started seeing some bushings showing play and replaced them. Also replaced the lower ones (no signifigant play) due to age and since a break there at speed could be much worse than a upper arm bushing. Check belts and coolant lines to make sure they're in good shape. Make sure whatever pads you use have plenty of material and fluids are full and clean (I run engine oil level a little higher than the full mark due to cornering forces and cambered turns)

Don't worry about competing with others, you're competing with yourself. I've pointed a Civic by and been told to pass by several Vettes (my car doesn't even pull well on straights) so it's all about learning and not what you're driving. You'll have fun at any speed and more fun as you learn. Go with the goal to learn, once you learn what you should be doing you'll be going fast before you know it.
Brian

 

[Van]

I'm getting conflicting recommendations with regard to proper tire pressure, on the road racing course at PIR (Portland OR), while driving on street tires. I'm being told to run them hard at 40 psi; run them softer at 28 psi, and where I bought them, Les Schwab, they recommend 34psi. The tires are Kumho 711s all around: 225/50/zr16 front and 245/45/zr16 rear. The high ambient temps are no more than mid 60's this time of year. What does your experience tell you? :1zhelp: Van

 

[Grimsta]

I run mine at 35psi. To make your car capable of even surviving a track day you will need to do something with the radiator and brakes.
Stock brakes are waaaaay to underpowered for these big pigs and the stock cooling system will overheat on demand when pushed hard for as long as a track session lasts. Luckily for you I have a Mishimoto rad GB, but that aside, those are the basics of where to start. Forget the power, what good is power if you can stop it or overheats you?

 

[Van]

Bleak, were the conditions at the track.
It rained heavily all day, which left standing water everywhere. A crash into the guard rail on the back straight that totaled a race prepped Corvette and left two production cars in the infield and a spec Miata stuck in the mud on it's exit, sidelined the rest of us, until a tow could pull them out. That was the first hour!
Needless to say, I was cautious. So cautious, it took me most of the rest of the hour I was in the seat, to recover enough to push the car to its limit.
When I did, the Supra was rather forgiving, and recovered well with little steering or throttle input.
Breaking into a hot corner from a top speed in the low 120's, on stock pads, revealed no fade and controlled entry into turn 1, at a speed of around mid 40's, all according to the records kept by the instructor in the car w/me. It did take all of the 400' of the breaking zone to scrubb the speed and it was wet, which helped the break temps, but also caused threshold breaking to come on earlier making breaking distances a little longer.
The set up is mostly stock, with the exception of TRD Comp springs and KYB shocks on all four corners, plus the usual performance upgrades like 3" turbo back exhaust system, and a single piece, aluminum drive shaft. The car has a recently installed short shifter, that caused this driver to have difficulty finding gears on occasion, likely due to unfamiliarity.
All in all, a very enjoyable first run on the road course at PIR. Van

 

[Grimsta]

Good job, way to handle yourself & not wreck the car
I have a feeling you'll be looking to outgrow those TRD springs soon though

 

[prsrcokr]

Glad to hear you had fun but no dry sessions, that's no good. You'll really like driving out there in the dry but driving in the rain makes to focus on the line to go fast. You must have been doing pretty well to hit speeds like that in the rain (since you can't accelerate as hard/early exiting the corner where it really counts) and threshold braking is that much more difficult. In the dry on race pads and street tires it can be like 'performance' pads were in the rain. Staying just out of ABS is a very fine line.
Nice job, any pics of the weekend?

 

[Van]

Unfortunately, no pics or video, as my buddy got sick then the last minute attempt to get a back up went south on me. Next time I'll have my own set-up. Saw three different video set-ups at the track, one was a bullet cam attached to the helmet, w/a small transmitter, but most were standard video cams clamped to a roll bar.
My Supra didn't come w/ABS, as it started out its life as an 86.5-87NA. It weighs in at 3535LBS as well w/me and the spare in it. Heavy!
Brian, you are so right that finding the racing line allows one to go quickly through a turn in the rain, as each time I didn't, I had to work so much harder to keep the Supra under control.
The trickiest turn is 7 on PIR's new surface as it is new, flat, wide and now has an elevation change, and was the one turn the car showed how predicable it is when not on line.
I did have a lot of fun! Van
p.s
Here is a short vid at PIR, to give you a look at the layout of the road course. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFyVJg3Wm8s&feature=related
Van

Glad to hear you had fun but no dry sessions, that's no good. You'll really like driving out there in the dry but driving in the rain makes to focus on the line to go fast. You must have been doing pretty well to hit speeds like that in the rain (since you can't accelerate as hard/early exiting the corner where it really counts) and threshold braking is that much more difficult. In the dry on race pads and street tires it can be like 'performance' pads were in the rain. Staying just out of ABS is a very fine line.
Nice job, any pics of the weekend?

 

[prsrcokr]

No ABS? Props to you. I did that once when I had messed up the sensor replacing bearings, almost slid off the track in the rain on the first lap
It's much easier to recover when going just over the threshold with ABS but a lot of folks don't like it.

 

[supramanocnsd]

Sounds good... I thought about doing this with a MKIV for a few kicks

 

[Grimsta]

Ha ha that Porsche fools gettin his ass passed! Guess owning a $100,000+ car doesnt instantly make you a racer driver huh?
<---- Definately in need of some Wilwoods

 

[prsrcokr]

You don't need the big brakes Grim, just the right pads. I was getting mad at Miatas and Minis for braking so early last time (I'm on street tires)

 

[Grimsta]

Eh, with the speeds you can reach at T-Hill.... biiiig brakes

 

[Van]

I've read and heard a lot of controversy over the subject of bigger breaks, on our Supras. At the track, I saw so many variations of breaks, stock rotors, stock pads, aftermarket pads ,after market rotors and all sorts of combinations. Those racers that I spoke with said they got to the point of modification by necessity and one step at a time, with the exception of one racer who had a set-up that was specified by the group she races in.
I went to the following site to learn more: http://www.carbibles.com/brake_bible.html
On a BMW M roadster, the rotors already had cast holes, therebye reducing the risk of cracking. Are those type of cast hole, vented rotors available for the Supra?
Van