Shimming WG, HG, & Head Stud Questions

ChadMKIII

ChadMKIII

Yup, Thats The G/F
Jul 14, 2006
369
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34
Bay Area, Ca
Hey, sorry, I know these topics come up all the time, but I've searched around a bit and haven't gotten a lot of hard numbers and answers. I'll make it short and sweet, any real quick answers would be awesome. FYI, no mods at all, want to do I/E soon (which I know should be done before turning up too much boost), but I'd like to shim the WG a lil now since everything is already apart.

1. I'm replacing HG right now, not going MHG, is there a certain brand of reg HG that I should go with, and why is that better? Or is a Toyota HG w/ properly tq'ed head bolts/studs fine?

2. Head Bolts vs Head Studs: I'd rather go w/ studs, but do they require a lot of extra work to get in there (like moving motor, etc?)

3. If I go w/ just bolts, is there some reason ARP is better than, say, Toyota OEM parts?

4. Bolt Torque: I've heard between 72 & 85 ftlbs, running a composite HG and no other mods (besides shimming wg), is the general consensus of about 76ftlb ok?

5. Shimming WG: How much boost can a proplery tqed stock HG and the rest of the engine handle for now?
I'm thinking of trying to squeeze 11psi, is that too much (fuel cut? lol)?
And, about how far do you have to shim to get that? (Whats the ratio of amount shimmed to boost added)

6. If I need longer bolts for the WG, whats the info on them (like thread pitch, dir, a good length, etc)

Thanks so much!!!
 
thesandymancan

thesandymancan

a.k.a: mittens
Mar 7, 2006
233
0
0
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boise, idaho
1. i wen't fel-pro, same as oem but it got here faster.
2. studs. there isn't any more work needed for studs.
3. arp>oem. because IJ told me. i think thats reason enough.
4. torque specs are on the box.
5. not shure on this one.
6. i used 4, 1mm washers. it maxed by shitty stock boost guage so i dont know how much boost i was running. longer bolts not needed for me.
 
johnathan1

johnathan1

Supra =
Aug 19, 2005
5,056
1
36
36
Downey, California, United States
Fel-pro head gasket is not as good as the OEM Toyota head gasket.

Studs are no harder to install...just put the head on the block, and screw each one in by hand with an allen wrench, and screw the nuts onto them. ARP is much better than stock, the hardware has a MUCH higher tensile strength.

Torque to whatever is says in the directions that come with the studs...if you go with studs, you have to retorque after 500 miles.

I wouldn't go higher than 10psi if you want to retain reliability, but start out with stock boost.
 
Jaguar_5

Jaguar_5

It's ALIVE!
Feb 7, 2006
1,468
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Seattle
johnathan1 said:
just put the head on the block, and screw each one in by hand with an allen wrench, and screw the nuts onto them. ARP is much better than stock, the hardware has a MUCH higher tensile strength.

Torque to whatever is says in the directions that come with the studs...if you go with studs, you have to retorque after 500 miles.
Click to expand...

Definitely follow ARP's directions! For stud's it is 80 ft/lb's when using ARP moly. Use the moly on both sides of the threads, and both sides of the washers.

I installed my studs out of the car, and found that I had to remove each stud because there was no room for the washers to slide in. I didn't realise i had to do that before i put on the head, and hope they all stay lined up!

Moral of the story for in-car installation: Put the washers on the head with some needle nose plyers, before you thread in the studs
 
trydrew

trydrew

Suprafied
Nov 4, 2005
1,038
0
36
Earth
johnathan1 said:
Fel-pro head gasket is not as good as the OEM Toyota head gasket.

Studs are no harder to install...just put the head on the block, and screw each one in by hand with an allen wrench, and screw the nuts onto them. ARP is much better than stock, the hardware has a MUCH higher tensile strength.

Torque to whatever is says in the directions that come with the studs...if you go with studs, you have to retorque after 500 miles.

I wouldn't go higher than 10psi if you want to retain reliability, but start out with stock boost.
Click to expand...

New ARP bolts must be retorqued too, if they are new. Generally you should go by heat cycles, as the reason they are being 'loosened' is because of the heat of the engine. IIRC, IJ said 10 full heat cycles was adequit before a retorque.
 
Big Wang Bandit

Big Wang Bandit

You Can't Quit Me Baby
Feb 21, 2006
7,551
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San Ramon, CA - 925!
Boost is too high Chad.

Keep it around 9 or 10. Thats still a lot. Your playing with fire when it comes to that shit.

Run the engine for a while stock, make sure everything is all dandy, thennnnnn turn up the boost a lil bit. I say keep it at 10
 
C

cnewingham

Guest
DO NOT I repeat DO NOT shim the w/g. You can buy a manual boost controller for under $30.

You can run 13psi of boost with no problem on the stock hg as long as everything is in good shape. A definet must have at the very least though is a full turbo back exhaust and intake which would actually move you to around 8-9psi without a boost controller or shimming the w/g.
 
C

cnewingham

Guest
Why should he NOT shim the waste gate?
Click to expand...

Becasue first of all it is ghetto, second is that a manual boost controller could be had for $30 which is adjustable and not just a guessing game of which width of washers and how many to use. It has also been said that it effects the actuator and also prone to cause more cracks on the exhaust housing than normal (these 2 issues I have only read about as I have never done this and never will)
 
ChadMKIII

ChadMKIII

Yup, Thats The G/F
Jul 14, 2006
369
0
0
34
Bay Area, Ca
Agreed that its ghetto, but right now its the easiest way.

How exactly would an MBC fit in there, be adjusted, etc....and which one/where would be the best deal? I may consider it if its easy enough to get a hold of quickly and cheaply (if it really is only 30 ill go for it), and easy to install and adjust.
Info plz, since you seem to be soo against the idea of shimming it.
 
Y

yrallofthenamestaken

-
Feb 13, 2006
69
0
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Ohio
wow a lot of mis-information here. the only ill effect that shimming the wg will have is over time, the actuator spring will become weak. a shimmed wg would not crack a housing before an mbc would....that is just fucking stupid.

you'll notice with almost any mbc an increased amount of boost spikes ( yeah those are bad ). Shims are great, more reliable, safer, and i dont really understand why it is being called ghetto to shim the wastegate. the only thing i can think of is that you truely have no idea what shimming the wg is about.

in my opinion, MBC's are looked at as a cheap and easy way out of a far superior EBC (sound a little "ghetto" to anyone?).
 
ChadMKIII

ChadMKIII

Yup, Thats The G/F
Jul 14, 2006
369
0
0
34
Bay Area, Ca
Yeah, I fully agree an EBC would be a lot better, but I can't afford a few hundred for it when I can get this for 25 shipped, or shims.
I'm going with Dr. Jonez's MBC, should be fine for the time being. Hopefully getting an APEXi intake come Christmas, then I'd like to get a job after things slow down for me, maybe around Feb, and get a turbo elbow, 3" DDP, and a full 3" exhaust, so it can actually breathe.
 
8

87supraturbo2

New Member
Dec 28, 2005
16
0
0
North Vancouver, BC, Canada
cnewingham said:
Becasue first of all it is ghetto, second is that a manual boost controller could be had for $30 which is adjustable and not just a guessing game of which width of washers and how many to use. It has also been said that it effects the actuator and also prone to cause more cracks on the exhaust housing than normal (these 2 issues I have only read about as I have never done this and never will)
Click to expand...

I really dont see how theres anything ghetto about shimming the wastegate. Chad if you want something to make sure you have everything to shim it right check out this kit from MDC Motorsports. If MDC made one I really doubt the mod is seriously ghetto and will destroy your CT.
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3521

HTH,

-Matt
 
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