Pump gas/toulene mixtures-higher octane rating

[CTsupra]

(Toulene octane)(# of gallons)+(pump gas octane)(# of gallons), then divide by total number of gallons, in which case is 18.5 gallons for the Mkiii, so five gallons of toulene mixed with 93 will equal about a 99.3 octane rating. (Or, 1.2 gallons of toulene + 3.8 gallons of 93 will equal about 99.3 octane, and is 30% toulene.)

Toulene has RON+MON/2 of 118, so when you average it out with pump gas, this is how you obtain the final octane rating.

Pump gas has 9% toulene by volume, and 8% xylene. Race gas has 27% toulene and 1% xylene.

Pump93/Toulene ratio----Gallons----------Octane
95%/5%------------------17.575/0.925-----94.05
90%/10%-----------------16.65/1.85-------95.10
85%/15%-----------------15.725/2.775-----96.15
80%/20%-----------------14.8/3.7---------97.20
75%/25%-----------------13.875/4.625-----98.25
70%/30%-----------------12.95/5.55-------99.30

It's dangerous to your fuel system to use more than a 30% toulene mix. Why? I forgot... lol, sue me. Just dont do it!

Make sure to add lubricant when using toulene. Marvel mystery oil comes into play here.

55 gallon drums of toulene, can be had for $246+ shipping from "Star Bronze Company Inc." ...last I knew. Or, can be bought at your local paint store, but make sure they have "pure" toulene, not paint thinner.


Edit: Searched and couldn't find any info on this, so I figured I would post the info I had for anybody who wants to up their boost some more!

Oh yeah, and Toulene(Pure) is 114 octane.

Edit2 Eh, so the ratios aren't lined up perfect, I'm tired of trying to edit them!

 

[siman]

here is a good write up on race gas and gas in general...

http://www.foxvalleykart.com/fuel5.html

 

[siman]

From this part 6,(above is part 5):
http://www.foxvalleykart.com/fuel6.html

TOLUENE AND XYLENE

We've chosen to lump Toluene and Xylene together for several reasons. If you read the previous article (NKN July 1995), you probably noticed that we poured substantial quantities of Toluene and Xylene into the base fuel samples trying to get the Digatron meter to react. The best we could do was to push it down to ?8, and that with over 50% of each additive! The reason is simple: both Toluene and Xylene are major components of normal gasoline! They're already in there in substantial quantities. Increasing the concentration does nothing but raise the octane rating of the fuel, and, if you've kept up with your reading, you already know that raising the octane, in and of itself, is of no benefit to almost all karting engines.

Again, in keeping with our goal of maintaining consistency in our testing routine, we dynoed samples with 2% and 10% of each, both Toluene and Xylene. As expected the 2% graphs show only the most minor variation, with some gain in the low RPM range. This is most likely due to the increased octane rating from adding these materials helping to suppress some high load, low RPM detonation.​

 

[CTsupra]

nice link, although toluene <--- that's how it's spelled :doh: is almost worthless for go-kart motors, it's totally beneficial for the Supra!

nice go-karts on there.

 

[siman]

I know, the more octane the better on a turbo car....well there IS a limit somewhat when you are dealing with factory fuel settings/mappings.

-Jonathan

 

[Adjuster]

To give you guys an idea of how much the toluene has varried price wise, it's about 5.00 a gal now, and was 1.04 per gal when I bought two 55 gal drums two years ago.

Ouch.

Word of advice. Your going to need a pump with Viton seals. (Plastic pumps seem to work best, the simple ones last longer actually.) If you use a normal barrel pump, the seals are toast after one or two uses of the pump. (I'm on my third pump now, and finally broke down, paid the 50.00 for the good plastic pump with viton seals... no problems since.)

Don't keep it in plastic containers for long periods of time. (Like months. Don't know why, it's just what everyone tells me.) I generally add somewhere between 20 and 30% to my tank to suppress detonation at levels over 20psi. It works great, but is getting expensive. (Cheaper than an engine rebuild however, and the power is fun.)

Besides, you can turn down the boost when you don't have the toulene to add, or can't find race gas. (Same stuff, this is just WAY cheaper.)

Also, from what I've read, and been told, you can use any lightweight oil in the toluene. ATF is what I add. (Just a few ounces to 5 gal, mix it up and pour it in.) The oil keeps your pump happy, stops the toluene from drying out your hoses and seals, and makes your injectors happy too. (Any moving parts in your fuel system need some lube, and the toluene is very adept at cleaning everything out, including the good stuff.)

BTW, fuel system cleaners are mostly toluene or xylene with some other stuff like ATF or other lightweight oil... LOL Make your own in huge amounts, run more boost, and have clean fuel injectors.

 

[shaeff]

I know, the more octane the better on a turbo car...

thats a common misconception. you'll want to run higher octane if you're boosting more, but on a relitavely stock car, or even mildly modded, you'll get the best performance out of running the lowest octane possible without detonation/pinging.

-shaeff

 

[CTsupra]

Adjuster: Thanks for the info!

Which pumps would we want to use? Do the drop-in walbros have the plastic seals you're talking about? What about externals? Which ones?

 

[siman]

thats a common misconception. you'll want to run higher octane if you're boosting more, but on a relitavely stock car, or even mildly modded, you'll get the best performance out of running the lowest octane possible without detonation/pinging.

-shaeff

I totally understand.

I really ment to say the more boost on a turbo car, its better to run more octane and to your point of pinging/detonation.

 

[figgie]

Toluene, Xylin, Benzene.

All are Aromatics and as such can chew up plasitc with ease (pour some laquer thinner on plastic and watch it eat it away, Laquer thinner contains Toluene). As why the 30% rules. Just like alcohol. The lambda for Xylene is much different than the lambda for gasoline.

 

[Cz.]

Great info, definetly important if you're going to go crazy with boost.

 

[Adjuster]

The pumps I was talking about are to pump the Toluene from the 55 gal drum, to your 5 gal gas can.

I would attempt to pump it straight from the drum to your Supra, as this stuff is paint thinner, and will eat your paint off pretty quickly, or at best, only stain it if you spill some.

I use a good can, and funnel, and keep a clean rag handy just in case of any spills. (So far, none have happened, just be very careful, and pour slowly.)

I also don't keep the Toluene in my garage, but in a shed away from the cars. (Can you imagine accidently hitting a 55 gal drum of this stuff and bursting the drum?) I don't want any accidents killing someone.

I can't remember the name of the plastic pump that so far, has not failed. It is a piston type, has a tube about as deep as the drum, you just thread it into the bung and your done. (I don't leave mine in place as the toluene tends to evaporate off over time, and that is gas going away into the air there. I fill up my car, and then re-fill the 5 gal gas can. Then pull the pump, and seal it up with the drum bung and seal. (no leaks) This has worked great for a few years.)

Only thing I wish it had a better version of is the hose that comes off the pump, It's this corriguated deal, and all the ridges trap toluene when you use it. (A smooth hose would be better for this type of transfer work.) I'm tempted to buy some clear hose from Home Depserate in the right size and see how it holds up to toluene use.

Figgie, what is the best AF for using 30% Toluene with your pump gas? I'm just trying to stay away from anything 12 or higher at WOT. (Is this like propane, where you can run leaner and still have temps that are fine? My EGT's are never more than 1400f at the turbo outlet, and generally run about 1200 to 1300 depending on the amount of time I'm in the throttle and outside air temps. (Short pulls don't move it much, but a long freeway pull at high boost up to say 165mph from about 30mph will push EGT's into 1350/1400f range.) About that time, you have to slow down, and the EGT then drops to 1200ish quickly. Actually, at cruise, no load, the EGT's are the highest I've seen. (Especially when your cruising at 110mph or so, and just slightly boosting to do this easy.) I've seen 1500f at those times, but no ping, no weird AF's just 14.7 being produced by the stock TCCS and narrowband. (Dances at 14 to 15 with 14.7 being right where it want's to be.)

 

[CTsupra]

Thanks Adjuster. I thought you were talking about the car fuel pump... lol.

Bump for Adjuster to figgie for a good post.