PSI vs AIRFLOW

PorterzSupra

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Anyone have any good articles that explain the relationship between turbo PSI and airflow? For example the stock turbo at 15-18 PSI (BC), my T66 at 9 PSI puts out way more then the stock one at 18. How does this work? Any good articles that explains it?
 

Nick M

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PSI is pounds per square inch, which is a measurement of resistance in an enclosed system. Pressure is resistance to flow, not flow. Although in common lay terms it is often used to describe push.

The T66 puts out much more air at 9 psi becuase it is a much bigger pump. Boyles law states that an increase in pressure will result in a proportional increae in tempertature, so the air is superheated when it is forced to 18 psi by the smaller pump.
 

Nick M

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Oh yeah, the turbocharger compresses the air. Hence, the compressor part of the unit. And the Toyota unit being much smaller is much higher reistance to flow, and the pressure (resitance to flow) goes up significantly trying to push more air than it is capable of.

And your big ass T66 doesnt have that problem.

I don't know of an online aritcle, I am simply drawing from college education.
 

PorterzSupra

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yea but why would running more PSI on the stock turbo make it put out more power if the PSI is not the determining factor, airflow and pump size is? Thats my question like, I know the basics...
 
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PorterzSupra

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oh btw this is the beast we are speaking of, 4 inch inlet, 3.5 exhaust outlet T66/T4 Hybrid, even thought the exhaust housing is a T4 its still .84 wheel and it will fit on the aftermarket T4 manifold (BARELY) and the intake housing is a T66. I picked this bad boy up for around $370 new!!!!!!!!!!! and let me tell u this thing is pretty serious!!!!!! and I dont have that much turbo lag, the turbo comes in at a later RPM 3800 - 4 grand to be exact (but I have 200+ HP NA block to bring the revs up quick) but when this bad boy comes in at 9 PSI its nothing short of amazing... It was funny when I first put it on I was like WTF it dont make any boost but I realized where the stock in 4th or 5th at 2 grand would make boost this has to goto 4 grand I was in for a big surprise when I finally reved the car, I am running a knock meter with no knock on high octain gas and water intercooling, im gonna turn it to 13-15 once I get the tune I will be pusing for 550 - 650 (I have extensive other mods)
 

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MassSupra89

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Where'd you get that so cheap...and how, let me in on your secrets haha.
That's a nice set-up you got. I'd only be concerned with the intake being right over the exh. manifold and buried on the hot side of the engine.
 

souprat

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http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/08...f=pd_bbs_1/002-4684130-9937635?_encoding=UTF8

will answer this question and much more.

"yea but why would running more PSI on the stock turbo make it put out more power if the PSI is not the determining factor, airflow and pump size is? Thats my question like, I know the basics..."

because along with the increase in pressure(psi) there is an increase in flow(cfm). the compressor wheel is spinning faster meaning its moving more air. your T66 doesnt have to try very hard(would have very low pressure) to move the same amount of air as a ct at lets say 10psi. not only will the T66 be moving the same amount of air but it would be doing so without raising the temp or the air very much whereas the ct would be putting out air hot enough to bake a cake.
 

PorterzSupra

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I am working on a heatshield or extension for the intake but I got it from ssautochrome, they have stuff EXTREAMLY cheap and they are a VERY good company, I also got my water intercooler for $100 bucks new (supports up to 1000 HP) , after getting on it for a while the inlet side is warm and the outlet is ICE cold!!! its great.. BTW think they sold all thoes T66 turbos, they had like 20 and they sold them all the first week. but I can find out if u really wanna know, I know a few guys up there
 

IHI-RHC7

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Nice Setup Porter, I would recomend routing the air fiter out of the hot side of the engine bay, and increasing the size of your IC pipes, it is certainly a unique setup.
The thing with turbos is interesting. Nick was right on the money.
To go a bit deeper, your turbo is a compressor and a pump. Superchargers are only pumps (eaton/roots styles). So with a supercharger, a bigger pump makes more "boost" and more power. The 7m injests 3 liters of air ever two revolutions of the crank. That is what makes it a 3 liter and this can NEVER change. So if you wanted 14.7 pounds of boost from a perfectly efficient supercharger, you would just get a charger and spin it so it pumps 6 liters of air for every two crank revs.
PV = nRT.
P is pressure
V entering the engine is ALWAYS 3 liters,
n is the number of gas particles entering the engine.
R is an Ideal gas constant,
T is temp.
So with the supercharger, you try to squeeze 6 liters of air into the 3 liter engine and you get 3 liters of air, double the air particles (n) and double pressure. sits atmosphereic pressure is about 14.7, that gets you 14.7 psi.
That only works if the pump is 100% efficient and does not heat the air at all, hence intercooling.
Turbos are neat.
The end effect of a turbo is like that of a pump, but turbos can actually blow 3 liters of compressed air into the 7m. 14.7 psi coming out of the volute of a turbo can get cooled, and enter the engine as 14.7 psi, 3 liters. A pump could not achieve this, a pressure between the pump and engine is simply a measurement of the reistance from the engine to the increase volume of air the pump is trying to move.
All of this talk of air in liters per two revs is a bit sloppy, so smart folks decided that there should be a better term, so airflow got the units of pounds per minute, or if you know the density of the air on any given day, cubic feet per minute can be calculated. That's CFM. Realistically, CFM and lbs/min is all that matters.
lbs/min of airflow has a neat way of helping you estimate horsepower, kind of like how the cc size of injectors gives an estimate of power production. The injector trick works only with 6 cyl engines and varies based on the BSFC values for the engine, but still, 550 cc injectors should make about 550 hp before being tapped out.
Well, to make that 550 horsepower, you'll need ROUGHLY 55lbs/min from that turbo.
So. A CT-26 blows 18 psi out its snail shell and into a nice intercooler. After getting chilled to a reasonable temp, the engine injests this air and makes some power. Well, a T-88 can make 550 hp with 18 psi. That's because if you simply spun a T-88 up to a nice 90,000 rpm or so and supplied 55lbs/min into it's inlet, you would read a gauge pressure of about 18 psi on the volute. You could spin a CT-26 up to 160,000 rpm and supply 55lbs/min to the inlet, and it simply could not flow all of the available air through the restrictive impeller wheel.
Similarly, if you put a restriction on either of the turbos to regulate pressure coming out of the compressor housing to 18 psi, you would find that the T-88 sucks somewhere around 55 lbs/min through the inlet. The CT-26 would be sucking somewhere around 30-35 lbs/min. That is why CT-26s have trouble making the big numbers. You can play around with shaft rpm to tweak the pressure vs airflow numbers a tad and that's how they make compressor maps. Here's a map of your T-66
t66.gif

The boost on these maps is listed as a pressure ratio, where 1 is 1 atmosphere, or 14.7 psi. So in order to make your 600 hp, you'll need to spin the turbo up to a little over 100K rpm and have a pressure ratio of 3:1. That's 14.7X3 = 44.1 psi absolute. so that's 29.4 psi on the gauge to make that power.
Down at 9 psi, your looking at an absolute pressure of 23.7 psi and a pressure ratio of 1.6:1
Looking at the map above, 1.6:1 should be spining the turbo about 56K RPM and pushing 30 lbs/min or so. Basically, the T-66 running 9 psi should make similar power to a stock CT-26 pushing 18 psi. The car would certainly feel sluggish down low because the T-66 spools so much later.
Sorry for the novel, but I thought I'd really explain what's going on with boost and airflow etc. Of course there's more, because a CT-26 can blow 29.4 psi out it's snout, but the 7m just sucks that air down, so the intake manifold will never show that kind of pressure because the turbo is acting as a pump, and there isn't enough restriction to flow on the engines side to maintain that pressure.
Any Questions? ;)
-Jake