Please Take This Question Seriously

[LoveMy7MGTE]

Hey, I'm really sorry for posting a thread on something I'm sure has been covered a million times, but the search doesn't work and I just spent over half an hour manually going through threads page by page. Anyway, so here’s my problem. I’m just trying to finish up a BHG fix and rebuild on my 1987 turbo/targa/5spd and I have run into a few issues.

One (and this is the biggest problem)- I have fuel, I have spark, and I still have no running motor. Is my timing off? And if so, does the damper pulley have to be removed to reset timing? And if it does, does the radiator have to be removed to remove the pulley? Does anyone have a link to a how-to for setting timing?

Two- if it is not the timing, what else could it could be? I have a new (well used but in good condition) CPS and followed the TSRM directions exactly to install it, lining up the dot with the line on the gear, but when I push it in with engine at TDC it moves a little so the pickup on the cps doesn’t line up perfectly (possibly because of my timing being off?)

Three- I’ve removed the power steering idle up VSV, my power steering doesn’t work anyway, so don’t need that one, would this effect the car starting?

Four- For the life of me I can’t figure out where the oil pressure sending unit connector plugs in at. Shaef described exactly where it goes but I still couldn’t find it with everything in the way. Does anyone have a pic?

Five- If there’s any other reason why my car won’t start that I haven’t mentioned, what is it and how do I fix it?

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated, as I really need this car running, it’s my only transportation, and I’m soon having a kid, so I’ll need a way top get my fiancé to the hospital, and I can’t afford to have Doc Jonez come over and fix it for me.

 

[shaeff]

One (and this is the biggest problem)- I have fuel, I have spark, and I still have no running motor. Is my timing off? And if so, does the damper pulley have to be removed to reset timing? And if it does, does the radiator have to be removed to remove the pulley? Does anyone have a link to a how-to for setting timing?

most likely your timing, assuming you have fuel and spark. do this: with the motor off, and in neutral, (block the tires) get a 19mm socket wrench on the crank pulley. turn it until the notch mark lines up with the 0* mark on the timing cover. make sure both cam's matchmarks are alligned with the matchmarks on the back timing plate. (essentially, both cams at 0* and the crank at 0*. that's base CAM timing. then do this with the CPS:

then use a timing gun to set your IGN timing to 10* BTDC. that should make you dead on in timing.

Two- if it is not the timing, what else could it could be? I have a new (well used but in good condition) CPS and followed the TSRM directions exactly to install it, lining up the dot with the line on the gear, but when I push it in with engine at TDC it moves a little so the pickup on the cps doesn’t line up perfectly (possibly because of my timing being off?)

see above diagram.

Three- I’ve removed the power steering idle up VSV, my power steering doesn’t work anyway, so don’t need that one, would this effect the car starting?

no. plug the vacuum lines (one under accordian pipe, one going to the valve, and plug the valve too.

Four- For the life of me I can’t figure out where the oil pressure sending unit connector plugs in at. Shaef described exactly where it goes but I still couldn’t find it with everything in the way. Does anyone have a pic?

i'll see if i can find a pic of that for ya. i gotta go eat dinner.

Five- If there’s any other reason why my car won’t start that I haven’t mentioned, what is it and how do I fix it?

Any and all help will be greatly appreciated, as I really need this car running, it’s my only transportation, and I’m soon having a kid, so I’ll need a way top get my fiancé to the hospital, and I can’t afford to have Doc Jonez come over and fix it for me.

check all that first, and we'll go from there.

-shaeff

 

[jetjock]

1) You could pull the upper timing cover to check valve timing and to set the CPS. Procedures for setting everything are in the TSRM.

2) It should still start even if it's off a bit. You'll need to set base timing after you get it going.

3) No. But plug the line going to the intake manifold.

4) Goes to the top of the sending unit. Perhaps I don't understand the question.

5) If you have injection, spark, and timing the car must start. Are you sure you have injection? Btw, how do you know you have fuel and spark? Spray some starting fluid in and see if it tries to fire.

6) Take it to a mechanic. Btw, I'm pretty sure doc jones doesn't do deliveries

7) The kid is ready but she's still a fiance? Sounds like you've got bigger fish to fry than car problems

 

[drjonez]

...Btw, I'm pretty sure doc jones doesn't do deliveries

oh but i do!

 

[LoveMy7MGTE]

1) Btw, how do you know you have fuel and spark?

know it has spark because I pulled the #1 wire, put an extra plug in it and watched it spark. did the same for all the other wires.
know it has fuel because I pulled the line off the rail and watch it spray fuel.

 

[jetjock]

oh but i do!

Lol...then you can do a two-fer. What a deal

 

[jetjock]

know it has spark because I pulled the #1 wire, put an extra plug in it and watched it spark. did the same for all the other wires.
know it has fuel because I pulled the line off the rail and watch it spray fuel.

Ah ha....well, that doesn't mean you have injection (there's never a set of Noid Lights around when you need them eh? ). That's likely where your problem lies. Since the ecu uses the CPS for that too best to take shaeff's lead and focus on verifying it and valve timing.

 

[steve_mk3]

"know it has fuel because I pulled the line off the rail and watch it spray fuel."
So you know fuel is in the fuel rail, are the injectors fireing and getting fuel into the cylenders is the next question.
When you pulled the plugs out did they have gas on them?

are you sure the injector wires were placed back on the correct injectors?

Just my thoughts....
Steve


Here is a picture of the oil pressure sender, it is on the passenger side of the car below and to the left of the CPS-

 

[shaeff]

yes, the oil pressure sending unit is a little bigger than a 1/2 dollar coin. use a wire brush on the top of it to clean it up a bit.

also, if you want to check the injector wiring, here's how they should be done. post #2:

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12671

-shaeff

 

[LoveMy7MGTE]

ok, it starts when i use starting fluid, but dies right away. has fuel at the rail, and it ran fine 3 months ago, so injectors should still be fine. any ideas?

 

[7MGTEsup]

ok, it starts when i use starting fluid, but dies right away. has fuel at the rail, and it ran fine 3 months ago, so injectors should still be fine. any ideas?

If it fires with starting fluid, it points to a fuel problem. It would seem that your injectors arn't firing or but I don't think this is possible you have your feed and return lines for fuel on the wrong way.

 

[jetjock]

Yep, it appears he has no injection. Since he has spark the CPS is probably OK so I'd be looking at the injection power circuit. Fusible link AM2, the resistor pack, and wiring. Could be a bad ecu or the ING2 section of the ignition switch but I seriously doubt it. Might want to also try jumping the fuel pump to bypass the circuit opening relay if it's starting but won't keep running.

 

[LoveMy7MGTE]

Yep, it appears he has no injection. Since he has spark the CPS is probably OK so I'd be looking at the injection power circuit. Fusible link AM2, the resistor pack, and wiring. Could be a bad ecu or the ING2 section of the ignition switch but I seriously doubt it. Might want to also try jumping the fuel pump to bypass the circuit opening relay if it's starting but won't keep running.

any1 have a diagram or a how to on doing that?

 

[jetjock]

Well, it's gonna be tough for you to troubleshoot this without the car's schematics but the fuel pump thing is simple: open the diagnostic block located near the battery and jumper FP to +B. To check codes jumper T to E1.

 

[LoveMy7MGTE]

Well, it's gonna be tough for you to troubleshoot this without the car's schematics but the fuel pump thing is simple: open the diagnostic block located near the battery and jumper FP to +B. To check codes jumper T to E1.

alright, i hooked a test light up to my injector clip, no power or pulse at the injector clip. tried this on all six. so if my injectors arnt getting power what do i need to check?

 

[GrimJack]

Was this an inductive pickup tester, or an inline tester?

 

[jetjock]

Like I said, there's never a set of Noid Lights around when you need them . . Did you check the power side as mentioned in the previous post? Also, Grim's question has merit...answer it.

 

[LoveMy7MGTE]

inline tester, and i messed up, i was testing by connecting the two wires of the injector clip, another member told me the right way to test, and i found that they do have power. But I'm asuming no pulse because the injectors dont seem to be delivering fuel, or else the damn car would start. So what may keep the injectors from pulsing? I just got the injectors tested and they're fine. So i'm thinking I need a new ecu, though I dont understand why, because this one worked 3 months ago. Though I do have one plug on the ecu side of my harness that I can't seem to find a home for, pic is attached

 

[jetjock]

Hold on now, how were you testing them? Describe the method you were told. Connecting across the injector is the right way. If you were using a separate ground you'd see power because it's going through the injector coil to the ground side. You need to reference the grounds coming from the ecu or you'll get a false measurement. Or connectt directly to the positive post of the battery and then probe the ecu grounds. After all, how can the injectors have power and not inject unless all six have open coils or stuck pintles? Not likely. Fuel injectors are nothing but fancy solenoid valves.

That you have spark, that everything was OK before, and that all 6 are dead still leads me to believe you don't have the + 12 common feed to each injector. Be sure of that first.

 

[Dirgle]

That plug goes into a connector around there that then goes into the body harness and then proceeds to the Anti-skid control computer. It is for your anti-lock brakes. Your car can still start with the plug disconnected. I disconnected mine and my car still started.