Oversized valves, are they worth the
- Thread starter rakkasan
- Start date
Horsepower Freaks has them. It's a fair bit of cost for a fairly limited improvement - with your mods, I'd pass for now.
extra money to have them installed. Oh yes.
They have to enlarge the valve seats by the same amount> Then have port work done to take advantage of the bigger valve. Spend money else where unless you did all the other mods.
They have to enlarge the valve seats by the same amount> Then have port work done to take advantage of the bigger valve. Spend money else where unless you did all the other mods.
I'm in the process of building another motor from the ground up, it's not for my current motor. I'm looking for 550 - 600 hp, so I'm starting lay out my plans now (unlike my method I had with my current motor)
Valves didn't make much HP difference in Duane's car at around 600 hp.
On the other hand, it did make a rather large difference in torque - almost 100 more, IIRC.
On the other hand, it did make a rather large difference in torque - almost 100 more, IIRC.
Adjuster
Supramania Contributor
I'm glad I did mine.
They were Ebay stainless ones from Enginebuilder, are 1mm OS.
If I was going to do it all over again, I'd get a set of used stock 2JZGTE valves, clean them up, coat them, and have the seats cut for those.
It would require having your cams re-ground however. But at under 250.00 for that at Schnider, it's a great deal. You may also need to run the shimless buckets to make it work w/o spitting a shim, but I'm not positive on that.
The 2JZ valves are .5mm longer in the stem, and 1.5mm larger in diameter. The stem size is the same.
The cams would need to have the base circle reduced by the difference in the stem length, and that would result in slightly more lift and duration on the cams.
Another option would be to source the JDM shimless buckets that fit the 7M head, but buy 24 of them in the shortest version possible, add that "distance" to the .5mm picked up on the valves, and then reduce the base circle as much as possible, to get the most lift/duration out of the stock cams when re-ground.
Might be possible to get nearly 1mm of lift out of this very simple, and realtively cheap modification. (Figure 250 for the cams, 270.00 for the lifters, 80.00 for the Comp Cams BBC innner valve springs, and 300.00 for the head work for a total of about 900.00 for the parts not including the cost of the 2JZ valves, which you might be able to find used pretty cheap. 100.00 or less possibly.)
Just a thought.
The extra lift, and larger valves would improve flow, and with some porting to smooth it all out as much as possible, I'd expect you'd like the gains.
1000.00 for headwork is cheap when you really start getting down to the costs involved in building up the 7M. (1500.00 is generally a good starting point, price the Ferrea stuff.)
They were Ebay stainless ones from Enginebuilder, are 1mm OS.
If I was going to do it all over again, I'd get a set of used stock 2JZGTE valves, clean them up, coat them, and have the seats cut for those.
It would require having your cams re-ground however. But at under 250.00 for that at Schnider, it's a great deal. You may also need to run the shimless buckets to make it work w/o spitting a shim, but I'm not positive on that.
The 2JZ valves are .5mm longer in the stem, and 1.5mm larger in diameter. The stem size is the same.
The cams would need to have the base circle reduced by the difference in the stem length, and that would result in slightly more lift and duration on the cams.
Another option would be to source the JDM shimless buckets that fit the 7M head, but buy 24 of them in the shortest version possible, add that "distance" to the .5mm picked up on the valves, and then reduce the base circle as much as possible, to get the most lift/duration out of the stock cams when re-ground.
Might be possible to get nearly 1mm of lift out of this very simple, and realtively cheap modification. (Figure 250 for the cams, 270.00 for the lifters, 80.00 for the Comp Cams BBC innner valve springs, and 300.00 for the head work for a total of about 900.00 for the parts not including the cost of the 2JZ valves, which you might be able to find used pretty cheap. 100.00 or less possibly.)
Just a thought.
The extra lift, and larger valves would improve flow, and with some porting to smooth it all out as much as possible, I'd expect you'd like the gains.
1000.00 for headwork is cheap when you really start getting down to the costs involved in building up the 7M. (1500.00 is generally a good starting point, price the Ferrea stuff.)
I had a conversation with Lance Wolken over on Mk3Tech about this and he indicated that the 7M valves run out of breathing room around the 700 hp point!
The port shape/size isn't the restriction when chasing big numbers.
I went with 1mm os Ferrera's from HPF for the new motor with shimless buckets.
I'll be turning this one to 8000 so figure some extra flow will help.
The port shape/size isn't the restriction when chasing big numbers.
I went with 1mm os Ferrera's from HPF for the new motor with shimless buckets.
I'll be turning this one to 8000 so figure some extra flow will help.
IJ. said:
yeah id agree with lance...valves really arent hurting you much at all under the 650-750hp range... even with them upgraded unless you are upping the rev limit they arent gonna help you at that point or below...
when valves should used is if you are planning 700+ and/or are upping the rev limit to 7500+...thats when youll see the large gains and the nicer powerband from them...
on a side note...mark whatever happened with that car? did you just give on getting it or you were happy with getting just the engine and tranny?? let me know
Idealsupra said:
No car. The guy left it outside the fence & the county impounded it. Too much money to get it out. You might want to keep an eye open for it during the auctions though. It sucks for my because now I have to buy the pedals , flywheel. ect. All I got was the motor (long block only, no manifolds)& tranny. I only paid $250 for them.
Get this. I took the motor to 'my' machine shop. To tear it done, do all of the machine work, balance & assemble it will cost me $635. I bought a set of new JE pistons & rings mounted on resized rods with new bolts for $420 shipped. Another $120 for an oil pump & $60-80 for clevite rings & I have a stout long block for $1250. Not bad. :biglaugh:
Once I put my head, MHG & ARP bolts on from my last tear done, I'm going to put on a SSAutochrome manifold & possibly the FFI we've discussed.. We'll have to see about that, though.
rakkasan said:
umm where in the hell did you find JEpistons AND rods for 420???? i swear to god you better not be holding out on me
Idealsupra said:umm where in the hell did you find JEpistons AND rods for 420???? i swear to god you better not be holding out on me
Ebay
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jesus thats an awesome deal man.... id yank those rods off though and drop 400 on some nice eagle rods and call it a day.... pretty sweet.....
Idealsupra said:
The stock rods will serve my purpose well. They're good to 600hp, right? Besides, they're already fitted, sized & ready to drop in. A short block with JE pistons for $1200, you can't beat it.
GrimJack said:Damn - talk about a nice score on Ebay!
I built a 558hp 351 Cleveland (4 bolt main) for $2392 with all the part being bought off ebay. I'm the Ebay king! :biggrinki
i saw that auction goin down. i was gonna bid, but stopped looking on ebay before it ended. i realized that me going on ebay when i have no money, is like putting a full, gourmet meal outside of a jail cell.
its just not fair, man
its just not fair, man
supra90turbo said:
I couldn't believe that they didn't draw more last minute bids. I recieved them today and other than on tiny, tiny ding, they're perfect. I can't believe they sold for $405. :icon_surp
well, to be honest, yes os valves are worth it if youve done headwork. ask any v8 engine builder and they will tell you the power is in the head. the better the head cna flow the more power the engine will make and that holds true for all internal combustion engines. they are all air pumps, and if you increase its ability to flow air, you increase its ability to make power. yes we have turbo's and that forces air in, but a higher fowing head with larger valves and better cams will allow even more to be forced in at the same boost level then a stock head and WILL make more power. just because it isnt needed doesnt mean it wont help. thats my $0.02
william
william