Oil coming from between head and block after HG installation

[redmkiii]

Alright guys I just finished putting my engine back together. I had some head work done, installed 1.2mm cometic hg, arp head bolts, timing belt and all of the other little things.Anyways, I started to pour the oil in and 3 quarts through I heard some dripping, it was coming out between the head and the block on the intake manifold side towards the front, maybe the 2nd bolt. Then I realized it was also leaking from the exhaust manifold side towards the back. I torqued the bolts to 85 lbs.I dont have any idea what could of happened. I need some help and thanks in advance.:wtc:

 

[Joel W.]

Did you remove the rivet from the headgasket if there was one?

 

[redmkiii]

Did you remove the rivet from the headgasket if there was one?

I just read a comment on horsepowerfreaks about having to remove a copper rivet.Could there be anything else causing this problem?If not could I just take everything off again but this time take the rivet off and use the same gasket? I also had poured coolant in before the oil did i F it Up more?
thanks again for your help.

 

[GrimJack]

If it's leaking oil, and you had already added coolant, it will need to be drained completely and both oil and coolant completely replaced.

The short version is that you are going to have to tear it apart again anyhow, just to find out what went wrong. Could be the rivet - though it usually crushes enough to hold until you run the motor hard. Could also be that the front timing plate cover wasn't machined along with the block. Other than that you're looking for a badly warped head, or something fell between the head and the block during assembly, who knows.

You'll find out when you get the head off again.

 

[Joel W.]

I do not know about reusing the head gasket. I have no experience with Cometic gaskets except for what I read on here. I know people have done the same thing you have done (forgot to remove the rivet) if that is what is going on.

Maybe someone else will chime in to help you on that question.. Sorry man..

 

[NJsupraA70]

The rivet is on the exhaust of the motor towards the front. Its very close to the Cam Position sensor location so I doubt thats your problem. I know more than one person who has kept the rivet and not had problems(including slow66). Regardless, theres something else leaking. To think the rivet is causing that kind of a leak is ridiculous.

Are you sure the main rubber pcv hose that runs from the block to the valve cover(ntext to the filler cap) is attached and not leaking?

 

[Joel W.]

I did not say that it was his problem, only that it could be.>> "If"

To say that it is ridiculous, is ridiculous!

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11234&highlight=rivet+cometic

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7115&page=2&highlight=rivet+cometic

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4931&highlight=rivet+cometic

 

[MDCmotorsports]

Maybe he forgot the front "seal packing" under the front two cam caps?

 

[socc924]

Also, I ran into a ploblem because I had the head shaved down and I didnt do anything about the front main engine cover. I bassically pinched the over hanging gasket and the front cover did not seal well. Maybe its your problem too, cause the oil just poured out the front.

 

[Joel W.]

Socc924: Do you mean the block surfaced? That would make more sense than the head alone..

Also, Take a square and flat piece of wood and set it on a flat counter top. Now slide a penny under the front (passenger side) corner where the rivet would be.

Notice the rear (passenger side) and the front (driver side) is just like a teeter totter (rocks back and forth).,

This is right in the same areas that he says it is leaking???

 

[socc924]

Joel W.
Socc924: Do you mean the block surfaced? That would make more sense than the head alone..

Haha, yea you know what I mean. But I think the biggest issue was that I wasnt paying attention when I installed the front cover and caused the gasket pinch between it. Thanks joel

 

[Boss302]

you didn't machine the front cover?

 

[redmkiii]

alright guys I was looking at my engine and it seems to be that there are several leaks occuring. could this rivet actually cause uneveness or more than 1 leak? From what I can see these are the areas where it is leaking.

And yes I used the right torque sequence.I guess the only way Im gonna find out what went wrong is by opening it up again, but can I still reuse the head gasket?

 

[Joel W.]

Are there five rivets in that gasket or am I seeing things?

Four of them look like they may be an issue to me but I don't know about that or reusing it.

What did the instructions say that came with the gasket if there were any?

 

[johnathan1]

Seems like every leak is ocurring where there is a rivet... Yea, that's gotta be the problem...I've alwasy thought you could re-use MLS head gaskets.. maybe the Cometic is different because of it's flourine coating? Obviously though, the rivets will have to be removed...

 

[jdub]

alright guys I was looking at my engine and it seems to be that there are several leaks occuring. could this rivet actually cause uneveness or more than 1 leak? From what I can see these are the areas where it is leaking.

And yes I used the right torque sequence.I guess the only way Im gonna find out what went wrong is by opening it up again, but can I still reuse the head gasket?

A couple of things:

- Did you get the front plate machined when you had the block decked? Did you use the silicon or RTV on the front, top corners of the front plate where it meets the head?

- The rivet tha normally causes the seal issue is the forward one under the CPS. I'll have to look at my motor when I get home in a couple days, but I'm pretty sure the other rivets clear the head & block.

- There are two indexing pins for aligning the MHG on the front & rear of the block...where they in good shape? Was the MHG and head aligned properly with these pins?

This Cometic has never been run...correct? If so, the coating (it's vitron rubber BTW) has never been heated to effect the seal. Assuming there is no damage, you should be able to re-use it.

You will have to pull the head to figure this out...I'm willing to bet you have oil in a couple of cylinders too.

 

[socc924]

I didnt have the front plate machined, and I bet most people dont unless the machinist mentions it. I would say start pulling stuff like the intake manifold, because it makes pulling the head a lot easier and you might find the problem along the way.

You could always do a quick compression test to see if the head gasket is the problem. If there is a big enough leak for oil to pour out there will be 0 compression.

 

[jdub]

I didnt have the front plate machined, and I bet most people dont unless the machinist mentions it.

If you don't have the front plate machined when you deck the block, the top surface of the front plate will be higher than the top of the block. That will not allow the head to mate flat with the gasket/block surface...there is no way to get the HG to seal under these conditions.

On a related note, the TRSM calls for silicon sealant along the top of the front plate...this is there to seal against oil leaks. Don't do it and you will have a leak.

 

[NJsupraA70]

I didnt have the front plate machined, and I bet most people dont unless the machinist mentions it..

oh god wow, lol. no wonder mk3 owners such as yourself get bhg's shortly after replacing their hg. :nono:


No offense, but if you dont know what your doing then leave it to someone who does.

 

[IHI-RHC7]

Hmm, if the machinest doesn't mention it, I don't think he know's any better than the end-user!