Well guys I was wonering about something today at work. I was thinking, could you not adapt the compressor and airtank from a air suspension system and modify it to boost the car for a couple seconds till the turbo spools? Basically mounting the air tank in the trunk with the compressor. pressurise the tank, and hook a sylenoid to the boost gauge. Basically you can switch the system on for racing. when you take off the sylenoid will boost the car till say the turbo hits 5psi or whatever boost level you set it for. When it hits that psi the system turns off and the turbo takes over. Till you shift, boost goes down system kicks in, and so on. I figure this would work very well for those of us with huge Turbos that take a sec to spool. Now I don't know much about the actual airbag suspension's compressor or tank. So I am not sure how much boost it could make or how long it could maintain it. Nor am I sure how much the weight of the system would be. But It is just a compressor, tank, sylenoid, and custom controller wired to boost sensor. But if it can lift a car off the ground it should be able to boost the car long enough for the turbo to spool between shifts.
New part idea
- Thread starter supraredliner
- Start date
Volume and Flow would be a problem, you'd need control valves and hoses around the size of your IC pipes.
An alternative would be either Co2 or N2o plumbed into the compressor so it hits the comp wheel at an angle to spin it up (think water wheel).
An alternative would be either Co2 or N2o plumbed into the compressor so it hits the comp wheel at an angle to spin it up (think water wheel).
This system is simplier than that. It would be plummed after the turbo possibly in the 3000 pipe. That and I want it to be a air system. Basically it would work like using nitrous to spool your turbo. Except instead of spraying into the engine, this would use oxygen forced into the engine to make the power till the turbo kicks to the right place.
You can't feed the engine from a tank for long enough due to insufficient capacity. The engine would need about 5 cubic feet a second to get a 5psi kick, 7.5ish for a 10psi kick...now to put that in perspective, our official cargo capacity with seats down is just less than 13 cubic feet...so you get 2 seconds or less if you can design a tank to fill all available space in the hatch and back seat area...
Not trying to piss on your idea here but it comes down to volumes.
Air suspension is High pressure low volume whereas what you propose is Low pressure high volume.
You'd need at least 400 CF of air to make it work (Big arse tank) then you need valves and lines to move that amount of air (big arse components).
A 2" solenoid valave will run you between $500 and $1K not to mention you'd need a 1 way valve so the introduced air didn't back spin the Turbo (act as a brake) as well as yet another valve to let the turbo spool on the other side of the 1 way.......
It's not a simple system.
Air suspension is High pressure low volume whereas what you propose is Low pressure high volume.
You'd need at least 400 CF of air to make it work (Big arse tank) then you need valves and lines to move that amount of air (big arse components).
A 2" solenoid valave will run you between $500 and $1K not to mention you'd need a 1 way valve so the introduced air didn't back spin the Turbo (act as a brake) as well as yet another valve to let the turbo spool on the other side of the 1 way.......
It's not a simple system.
LOL, guys that's why I posted it. I know next to nothing about Air suspension systems. I figured if it was that easy everyone would be doing. That's why I posted it, I knew some of you would know why or why not it would work. LOL This is all I do all day at work is think about new power adders or how to emprove the current ones. Thanks.
SRLiner: just read in another thread you're a CNC Operator!
LOL this explains why you have time to think of Supra stuff while you're working
!
A bit of a warning it can get damn expensive most of my plans are formed while the machine is running code and making chips!
LOL this explains why you have time to think of Supra stuff while you're working
!A bit of a warning it can get damn expensive most of my plans are formed while the machine is running code and making chips!
be cheaper and more simple to hook a second smaller turbo and use them like a seqentual (how do u spell again?) setup. I know IJ had the idea way way back, maybe a CT20? But imagination is the key to inovation. I still cant see the point in having a TV in a car but hey, as Homer said, Take something that has already been invented and just stick a clock on it. :drink1:
i'm not sure if this is what you're talking about but studebaker used to do something like this with a scuba tank....the only problem was that they ended up blowing a ton of transmissions part....which is not good...
I think the seqentual idea is where it is at. Especialy for the big turbo Setups. I think that it needs to be done more. You could even do allot with a
non-seqentual System and just running two CT-26's I would Imagine. I dont actually know but in my mind it would make sense just would need the supporting mods. Why not do something like this. i think Basicly it would be pretty cheap to do, Hook up a custom Header and DP if you already have 550CC injectors and a Lex AFM with the needed boost and fuel Comps couldn't you work something out or even use two stock AFM's with the turbo and use a custom signal board to take the signal from both AFM's and find the average between the two then send that to the ECU. Knowing that you basicly have doubled the air flow from the turbo's you could adjust accordingly with your fuel load. In thinking about thta you might need more then a 550cc injector setup but with proper monitoring and setup i would imagine that you could hack together a pretty bad ass setup doing this. The only issue i see is Fitting them both in with DP' and intakes as well as a IC that can flow enough.
Sorry for the off shoot but thought it was a cool idea and have been putting some thought into it lately trying to decide for future plans.
non-seqentual System and just running two CT-26's I would Imagine. I dont actually know but in my mind it would make sense just would need the supporting mods. Why not do something like this. i think Basicly it would be pretty cheap to do, Hook up a custom Header and DP if you already have 550CC injectors and a Lex AFM with the needed boost and fuel Comps couldn't you work something out or even use two stock AFM's with the turbo and use a custom signal board to take the signal from both AFM's and find the average between the two then send that to the ECU. Knowing that you basicly have doubled the air flow from the turbo's you could adjust accordingly with your fuel load. In thinking about thta you might need more then a 550cc injector setup but with proper monitoring and setup i would imagine that you could hack together a pretty bad ass setup doing this. The only issue i see is Fitting them both in with DP' and intakes as well as a IC that can flow enough.
Sorry for the off shoot but thought it was a cool idea and have been putting some thought into it lately trying to decide for future plans.
Mk3 TurboS said:
LOL, I already have several "bored at work" projects that I am acctually making that should help your spool up time. The air tank Idea was just a "wonder if it'll work" thing. The ideas I am making however. Well, let me put it this way it. Imagine a T78 spooling like a small factory turbo, and it doesn't involve Nitrous, or anything conventional at all.
A few years ago in WRC cars, they plumbed the blow off valve into the exhaust before the turbo. So when you let off the gas, all the air from the intake pipes flowed right out to the turbo keeping it spinning. Probably didn't work too good, no one is using them anymore.... it's an idea though. :icon_razz
G
gotboost$
Guest
IJ. said:
Totally agree on volume and flow problems, but Co2 would kick the shit out of you're engines power. engines burn on oxygen and fuel, replacing the o2 with co2 wold dramatically kill you're engine's power
Are you talking about a electric turbo limequat?
I had a friend put it in his Bemmer and boosted to 7 psi..
I had an idea years back. I was trying to design one...worked it out on paper..My brothewr helped as he is a mechanical engineer. Then I found out Garrett was in the process of doing one or already did it. It was a variable vane turbo. Changing a A/R ratio of a turbo to make it spool up fast. The A/R would be varied constantly depending on psi and flow requirements for the engine...It works like the gas turbine engines for jet...where the nozzle vanes are varied.
I think variable vane turbos are expensive. I have read about them too in Cocky Bell's book on turbos..I am sure some of your guys here have read that book too.
Cheers,
Roy
I had a friend put it in his Bemmer and boosted to 7 psi..
I had an idea years back. I was trying to design one...worked it out on paper..My brothewr helped as he is a mechanical engineer. Then I found out Garrett was in the process of doing one or already did it. It was a variable vane turbo. Changing a A/R ratio of a turbo to make it spool up fast. The A/R would be varied constantly depending on psi and flow requirements for the engine...It works like the gas turbine engines for jet...where the nozzle vanes are varied.
I think variable vane turbos are expensive. I have read about them too in Cocky Bell's book on turbos..I am sure some of your guys here have read that book too.
Cheers,
Roy
gotboost$ said:
i heard somewhere that people were cheating on racing by blowing CO2 into the other guys air intake, and the engine would pretty much die for a couple of seconds.
LOL dont know if it worked tho,
I'll chime in my $0.02 by saying that it doesn't matter how much air you would need to bost it for a minute, he only wants a second or two, I imagine a system like this might be helpful on the drag strip at launch and between shifts. If your engine eats 400cfm, well guess what, you don't need to carry around 400 cubic feet of air. I think the tricky part of this setup is not running really lean while the air is spewing in, you could premix the fuel in the compressed tank but then you would literally have a bomb in your trunk. Also, going faster on one pass with all the weight you would be putting in might be tricky, it would be very interesting and unexpected if you created this system and it worked.
I would go for something even simpler, like a very high pressure air nozzle angled at the exhaust turbine....get that sucker spooled righ tbefore you launch and it acts like a misfiring system between shifts, just without the explosions in your turbo
I would go for something even simpler, like a very high pressure air nozzle angled at the exhaust turbine....get that sucker spooled righ tbefore you launch and it acts like a misfiring system between shifts, just without the explosions in your turbo
tte said:
No not those, but I believe there are some real electric turbos in development. Garrett is actually working on a true turbo with electronic assist. imagine having a little motor between the compressor and turbine.
Yeah I think we all read that book when we got our first turbo cars (88 Sunbird turbo for me
The VNT is a great idea. There were applications back in the 80s on a Dodge Challenger or some such nonsense. It's also on diesels. The problem is reliability. I guess that intricate little mechanism doesn't like the heat of the turbo.
Lately the industry is moving away from VNT towards multiple turbos (A guy at International was working on a 3 turbo V8, but management made him pick 2) or just good spooling singles.
What I meant is using high pressure low volume to physically spin the Turbo up so you wouldn't be displacing very much is the way or air.gotboost$ said: