NEED help!!

[stokeless]

i just install my new turbo and ran the car for 40mins and then the car started to idle poorly and dead... code 24, 31 and 22 when i checked for codes. the know the afm is good; i have two and they both worked before the install..

code 22 is water temp sensor - not worried about this
code 24 and 31 are both related to the afm...

how do you check the afm to see if it's still good? i have a ohms-meter but i don't know what to do... i'm stupid in this area... the tsrm doesn't help either... maybe someone can help guide me

 

[bstevenson]

Wish I could help ya, but I don't know much about testing electronics. I had a similar problem a while back and was going crazy and it turned out that the signal had broken loose. . .so just for thought, double and triple check any wires just to be positive. For more technical info and testing information you'd have to check with someone else. The person that could probably give you much better info is jetjock. I always see him post amazing information and just thought I might point you in the right direction. Good luck

 

[Bishop92t]

Code 22 does more then you think. The ECU really likes to know coolant temp, and will cause the car to run poorly without it.

http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/library/TSRM/fi/FI_096.html
As for the AFM, the TSRM can only help you test the temperature probe inside it. Check your wiring and the two connectors for any damage. Did you boost during those 40 minutes?

 

[stokeless]

Code 22 does more then you think. The ECU really likes to know coolant temp, and will cause the car to run poorly without it.

http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/library/TSRM/fi/FI_096.html
As for the AFM, the TSRM can only help you test the temperature probe inside it. Check your wiring and the two connectors for any damage. Did you boost during those 40 minutes?

code 22 - will this prevent the car from running or starting???

the connector going to the afm looks good, i even sprayed it with electrical cleaner spray.

i did boost during the 40 min run... boost poorly but the car ran untill it stalled. i was able to drive it home but it was popping and i couldn't really take it above 2000rpm. if i would press the gas pedal down more the car would pop and stumble.

when i got home, the next day i couldn't start the car.

 

[jetjock]

Bishop is correct, the CTS is important. Unplug the coolant temp sensor and the ecu will use a default of 176 degrees. Leaving it plugged in *may* make the engine stupid if it's gone bad but it shouldn't give you a code and act stupid at the same time.

The reason for this is the ecu can only detect shorts and opens, it can't detect shifts in calibration of a sensor. So if you're getting a code the ecu should default to it's stored value even if the sensor is bad and plugged in. If CTS has shifted no code will be set but the engine will act up. Make sense? Try unplugging it in any case and see if the engine runs ok when hot.

That said, your symptoms point to a dead AFM signal. I find it hard to believe the air temp and karman sections of your AFM would fail together as they're completely independant but since the ecu doesn't lie I'd be looking at connectors and wiring. You can also check for 5 volts on the connector and measure the output of the AFM using the frequency function on your meter if it has one.

The engine should start even with a bad AFM so something is wrong. Clear all codes and try again. See if the same ones come back.

bs: thanx for the kind words...

 

[stokeless]

which wire do i measure for the 5 volts on the connector? do i measure this with the key turned to on? the temp sensor actually broke off. the car initially ran with the temp sensor off.

after i resetted the ecu, i am only getting the code 22. will the car start w/o this being repaired?

 

[jetjock]

If you're no longer getting AFM codes you have the 5 volts. The temp sensor in the AFM broke off? Or the CTS broke off? Yes, the car will start with a shorted or open (or unplugged) CTS but it'll run poorly until it warms up. It'll run poorly all the time if the sensor has shifted calibration.

 

[stokeless]

If you're no longer getting AFM codes you have the 5 volts. The temp sensor in the AFM broke off? Or the CTS broke off? Yes, the car will start with a shorted or open (or unplugged) CTS but it'll run poorly until it warms up. It'll run poorly all the time if the sensor has shifted calibration.

sorry the water temp sensor broke off... after i reset the ecu, i no longer have code 31 or 24 but the car will not start... if i try to pump the gas pedal and crank, it sounds like the car is choking. if i try and turn the key without pressing on the padel, it starts up inititally and stalls out right away... you think it's timing. i also relocated my steering resovir and might of bump the cps.

 

[jetjock]

Fix the sensor, it's important. Still, the car should start. Pumping the pedal accomplishes nothing. Shoot some starting ether in it or otherwise check to see if you have spark and go from there. Don't hesitate to clear codes every so often and start from scratch.

About our sensors:

The ecu uses a hardware method (pull up or pull down resistoring) to detect shorted or open sensors. It doesn't use software beyond looking for shorts shorts and opens. As long as the sensor's signal falls within a certain range the ecu accepts it as valid.

The problem is it may not be valid, it may be lying by sending out a signal that is 50 degrees (or whatever variable is involved) off from reality. But since the signal is still within the sensor's normal output range it's accepted by the ecu as truth. In such a case no codes will be set but the engine will still respond to the lie.

Only where the signal is shorted or open will the ecu set a code and not all codes illuminate the MIL. In that case the ecu will ignore the bad sensor and switch to a fixed value. In some cases you won't feel a difference in how the engine runs and in some cases you will.

It's important to keep in mind if a sensor goes "bad" in the sorted or open sense the ecu will pick up the slack and not strand you. What good would the car be if it quit running every time a sensor shorted or opened? That doesn't apply to sensors that lie while remaining within signal boundries so you can see it's far better for a sensor to short or open (no output at all) than it is for it to remain working but lie.

In short, the ecu's diagnostics are lacking compared to OBD II but we have to live with them. Such is life in the world of OBD I.

 

[stokeless]

i just checked:

compression - good
fuel - good
spark - good
timing - good
ic pipes -good

now the car cranks but will not start... i'll try swaping ecu tomorrow

 

[gilberjj]

wow, sounds like you're having loads of fun, hope you get it all figured out, i hate electrical problems

 

[snotboy]

not sure if this will help but have you checked the charge on the battery

 

[stokeless]

the charge on the battery is good. i even jumped the car with cables with another running car while trying to start the supra and no goo...

~ how many grounds do we have in the engine bay???

 

[Bishop92t]

When I accidently broke off my ECU's water temp sensor I could barely keep the car running. In combination with some other slight problem it could definitely keep the car from running at all. Fix the water temp sensor as soon as possible and it should make the other problem more apparent.

I can think of 3 grounds off the top of my head, 1 exhaust side head to firewall, 1 intake side head to ECU, 1 intake side block to battery.

 

[stokeless]

ground is good... ecu - checks out ok... trying a good working cps...

??? if the cps is bad, shouldn't it throw a code????

replacing water temp sensor soon...