Need a Second Opinion on Tune

[montoya_mk3]

Hey,

I need a second opinion about tuning a 1989 Supra Turbo w/ the following mods:

1)Rebuilt Engine with JE Pistons, Stock ROds, HKS 2mm Stopper HG, ARP HS, port and polish, stock valve train...etc
2)T3/T4 60-1 upgraded TUrbocharger
3) STOCK 440cc injectors and stock fuel pump
***4)Greddy Emanage with all harnesses
***5)Greddy E01 BC
6)Built Automatic Tranny

The problem my friend is having is the local tuner, now having put in a decent tune, says if he wants to run more than the 14lbs of boost he is running, he needs a standalone because the emanage doesn't cut it, especially because he needs to pull timing so the motor doesn't blow (he says in order to pull that timing and run a reliable motor, there is no other option than a standalone). I do not agree with this statement. I have been part of the Supra community for 6 years, though I never post and I know this can not be true. There are guys running SAFC's which is a lesser piggyback than an emanage but are putting out big numbers, more than my friend. I believe this car needs bigger injectors, upgraded fuel pump, and a good retune. AM i right??? Where do those 440cc injectors max out on??? All the help you guys can give me would be great. Thanks!!!

 

[tubbie]

Tell your friend to go find a new tuner. That shop either doesn't know how to tune the emanage or they are just trying to rip off your friend. Either way, find a new tuner....

 

[thesupraman]

Ditto tubbie. That guy is full of crap. You can make a lot of power on the stock ecu with piggybacks. Yes you will need bigger injectors or an FMU (fuel management unit) which is a rising rate fuel pressure regulator. I would also definately upgrade the fuel pump regardless of which route you go.

 

[montoya_mk3]

It's not as easy as just finding another tuner. We don't really have many in these parts. He has installed and tuned MANY MANY MANY emanages, but he is on this whole standalone thing....and my friend is obviously at his mercy because he has sunk so much money into his car at this shop. My friend is fairly well off....and i think people are trying to take advantage of him. If he were to run stock timing and get bigger injectors, will that run a realible setup.....and what methods is it possible to retard timing??? Obviously electronically....mechanically it can be done by cam gears...correct?

 

[GrimJack]

This tuner is full of shit... or himself, or both.

The stock injectors should be good to over 400 rwhp. Not to sure about the stock pump though! With those mods, I'd suggest:
- Larger injectors
- Walbro pump
- New fuel filter
- Adjustable fuel pressure regulator

And some good tuning, from someone who isn't trying to rip you off and who knows what they are doing.

 

[Dirgle]

Well I can understand where the tuner is coming from on the whole timing issue. The stock ECU has timing maps for up to 12psi. Past there the ECU just runs the 12psi maps. You can manually retard the CPS but this retards timing across the whole range idle to redline. The tuner is talking about retarding the timing while under positive manifold pressure, in order to prevent detonation. In standard turbocharger theory your tuner is doing things by the book. And by the book a stand alone or upgraded ECU is the safe way to boost past 12psi. However we supra owners have messed around enough with the limits to know how far we can push them and your friend should be able to reach his goal with what GrimJack suggested above.

 

[91suprat]

the stock injectors are actually probably alright, unless you are going to run a ton of boost. the 440's like said are good to over 400rwhp, with an upgraded ct you should be ok with the 440s. with that said if you do run the 440's with a lex afm you should have it tuned right off the bat to make sure your afr's are ok. not a bad idea to upgrade though if you have the money or higher aspirations for the future. the pump on the otherhand should be upgraded.

 

[Dirgle]

I wouldn't recommend running the 440’s to 400rwhp. Doing so would be exceeding the 85% duty cycle safety limit, and running them closer to 100% duty cycle, this is not advisable on a boosted engine. At this point the spray patterns distort, and the injectors run the risk of seizing, either of which can cause a lean condition and or detonation. As well as running 16 year old injectors that hard is just asking for trouble.
In reality if you upgrade the fuel pump get an AFPR and bump the fuel pressure up to 43.5psi(stock is 33-40 at WOT) you can safely run the injectors to 367rwhp. Past there.....well, may god have mercy on your engine because it's in his hands.

 

[montoya_mk3]

Thanks for your help guys. I am just weary of someone claiming that the emanage is extremely insufficient for running the MK3 upto 500rwhp (and my friend does know he won't reach that unless he upgrades his fuel system). I believe the factory computer plus emanage will be sufficient for tuning into that power level. I have seen a lot of guys with SAFC's running in that area and the SAFC is not as versitile as the emanage. I don't like the whole,"you need a standalone to replace your piggyback and e01 because I can not pull timing and you will blow it up. The emanage is maxed out with your setup." What pisses me off is he sold him the emanage and e01 knowing full well he was upgrading everything in a couple of months, charged him install, setup, and tune. A t3/t4 60-1 is not a big turbo and I believe the turbo can flow 450rwhp. I think you guys have answered whether or not the standalone at this point is overkill or not.

 

[Allan_MA70]

Still i'd go a motec with CDI for all those goodies and make the most of them! an emanage no matter how well done it is is still half assed

 

[montoya_mk3]

Allan_MA70, I'd go standalone too but the prob is he is being told it is necessary, no other options what so ever, which it is not. Like bishop92 says, even on a BONE STOCK Supra, you can get more out of it with a standalone than the Toyota computer. My buddy's car is just a mess after putting well over $10K into it.....it should not be leaking or have as many problems with it for paying some guy to do so much to it....and then tune it. I think more than anything, is I question the ethics behind the recommendation. It seems serveral guys on here, who know what their talking about, seem to agree with me.