Intermittent misfire

Suprasonic19

2JZ no sh*t!
Mar 5, 2007
135
0
0
Stockton, CA
88 7MGTE Automatic-Just finished putting new head-gasket and valve seals on. Replaced every gasket and seal in between. Ive put about 500 miles on the car since doing the job. The car starts fine when cold(even down to under 30 degrees) and will idle fine for 45 seconds to a minute but then will start to miss, more and more as the idle slowly drops. The amount of miss is randomly timed and how strong of a miss is random too. Some misses will just be a quick blurp that you can only see by watching the tach, others will be so strong the motor almost stalls out. The misses will get more frequent until the car is completely warmed up. Then they stay consistent, no more than 15, but no less than 2 misses per 10 seconds. The engine revs smooth and quick, but once you hold an rpm it instantly starts to miss again. Ive held it as high as 5k and still same conditions. If you try and start it after its been driven or warmed up, probably 3 out of every 10 starts it'll start then die instantly. And wont start until you give it gas. Like hold 25% throttle while cranking then itll fire instantly and rev to 2k, let off the gas and it'll drop to idle and start missing. While driving it wont miss if there is load, I.E. hills, accelerating, sitting in drive or reverse with the brake on. But once your cruising or coasting it starts missing instantly. Only the misses are less frequent while driving, about 2 to 4 every ten seconds. After accelerating up to speed like getting on the highway or pulling onto a street after you let of the gas and start cruise many times it'll run smoothly for about 10 seconds, but then start missing again. Ive ran 2 tanks of gas through the car(always ran chevron premium since car was new) and the conditions haven't improved or worsened.

Diag: There are no codes, the cel is never on. Only once did it flash for a quick second while the car almost died. Ive checked every vacuum hose I can touch, Ive sprayed throttle/carb cleaner around the manifolds and all hoses, with no change in the rpms. There is a slight amount of oil in the front two spark plug holes(less than a bottle cap full). I cant hear or feel any vacuum leaks either. The car never smokes and boosts strong. It did not miss before I removed the cylinder head. I have searched many times on SM and still haven't found anything quite like my situation. Thank you all for your help.
 

jrot

New Member
Apr 11, 2010
195
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0
knob noster, MO
mine has the miss also...i dont ever have stalling though or hard starting ect....mine will miss at 650rpm upto 800...then gone till 1500rpm then gone again at 1800rpm and up....i know a lot of owners have this miss nobody has ever figured it out...also the miss is probly there always but we dont really notice it under most condition...i really only notice mine at a long stoplight ect...i myself have tried simple fixes that worked for others with no help to me...i dont think my is too serious as much as annoying...but mine doesnt get as severe as yours...i hope to see good ideas here....its a common issue most probly have and never even notice...maybe not.
 

Suprasonic19

2JZ no sh*t!
Mar 5, 2007
135
0
0
Stockton, CA
Bio-Yes new plugs and wires.

Jrot- Mine misses at every rpm level.

Devin-The miss I have is much stronger than your problem. Ill go try and take a video of it right now.
 

bioskyline

New Member
Oct 21, 2010
1,236
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0
powell river bc
hmmmmm yours is a lot worse than mine. mine is just an occasinal pop till warm. almost sounds like an exaust leak at the muffler end.

have you double checked your timing?
 

hvyman

Dang Dude! No Way Man.
Staff member
Apr 17, 2007
12,568
1
0
Fullerton,CA
Check your cps wiring and the cps it self. Coils could be checked as well. Anything out of spec should be replaced even if its not by much.

Vapor lock is when the fuel vaporizes before getting out of the injector. Would have way worse problems than idling like crap.

Any cracked hoses or anything? Old vac lines?
 

Suprasonic19

2JZ no sh*t!
Mar 5, 2007
135
0
0
Stockton, CA
Bio-I just moved and didnt have a timing light where I was so I will check timing tomaro.

Hvyman-Didnt even think of the cps. I will check it and the coils in the morning. Would oil in the plug galleries cause a miss? I havent found any cracks in any lines yet.

Cajun-Ive checked for codes at least every other day since I first started it and still nothing stored. I will check again tomaro. The only time it does have a code is when I rev it with the wire in the diag plug. It says code 51, but I read in another one of your posts that that is normal.
 

jrot

New Member
Apr 11, 2010
195
0
0
knob noster, MO
yes you would be right about that since i dont even know what secondary wave form analysis is or how to accomplish it...guess ive found my search subject of the day....both of you guys have a worse one than i do....mine is so quick that it rarely shows on the needle...it just kinda bumps me in the seat ... sometimes worse than others and sometimes not at all...ive replaced all vac lines...done the COP conversion and also grounded the igniter....tried all kinds of different plugs new wires before and after my COP's....the miss is the same before and after COP's..no codes..i bet my cps wiring needs replaced though...i will about twice a year get the 51 and if i go giggle the wires it goes away.....thats probly where i will find my issue...not sure bout you guys though.....like i said mine doesnt even show on the needle even on its worst of days...
 

jetjock

creepy-ass cracka
Jul 11, 2005
9,439
0
0
Redacted per Title 18 USC Section 798
bioskyline;1670685 said:
you mean put the car on a scope??

Yes. Looking at the secondaries allows you to see exactly what the ignition system is doing in each cylinder. It can also tell you the mixture in each one. Using an ignition scope takes study and practice though.

Measuring the exhaust pulse with a pressure transducer and displaying its signal while synced to the ignition is another way. Once the faulty cylinder is identified (which is the real problem when dealing with misfire) it's usually a simple matter to go from there.

Cylinder identification can sometimes be done with simpler tools. Measuring the temp of each exhaust manifold runner with an IR gun for example. Not all misfire is ignition related but the point is knowing which cylinder(s) are missing makes the problem much easier to address.

Fwiw of the two (iirc) 7Ms I've scoped with idle misfire one was ignition related while the other had a bad valve.
 

gottadiesel

Flyin Low
Feb 16, 2009
459
0
0
Vancouver, Washington
*************** JJ you beat me to it... but of course said it better :)

bioskyline;1670685 said:
you mean put the car on a scope??

A method of troubleshooting the ignition system on a vehicle, allows you to see if the miss-fire is common on all cylinders or isolated to one (and which one) thereby you can back track to possible trouble causing issues or compenents that are common to one cylinder or common to all, depending on your conclusion of the interpretation of the wave forms... So for example, if test showed it to be only on cylinder #1 and that is it... and you have some oil in the galley of #1... that is where you would start (of course could be the plug itself fouling, which could be from the oil or could be the wire to #1) as stock setup most other issues should show up in pairs, since the coils and injectors fire in pairs...

JJ - I know I know... it was a very generic description...

Oil and Spark never mix well... I would start by cleaning that up, along with fixing the issue that is causing the leak... and from video I would say you have a definite exhaust leak...
 

jrot

New Member
Apr 11, 2010
195
0
0
knob noster, MO
is this "scope" a test that most shops will do and if so can you really trust what they tell you? sounds like i dont have the tools or the skill for that procedure....i forgot about the valves too i bet ive got an issue there also...i have spent much time fixing the stuff that the PO's "shop" did...and i know the head was touched....i better get on that too...just to get on top of this stuff i need a warm day or two but i sure am ready for winter...
 

Suprasonic19

2JZ no sh*t!
Mar 5, 2007
135
0
0
Stockton, CA
At the previous shop I worked at we could scope cars with our Modis scanner and print out the graphs showing the weak cylinders or any excessive plug resistance for customers. We never did it for customers, only for diagnosis purposes. Im sure a shop would do it if you asked.

In regards to my car, I tried to check my timing but my timing light broke so ill have to pick up a new one of those, but I looked over all the cps wiring and plugs and I couldn't find any bare spots, kinks, etc. All I found was that the plastic cover for the cps is cracked around 2 of the 3 retaining bolts. Is it important for that to be completely sealed?
Also found a tear in the intake pipe to the turbo. Right where it slides over the inlet of the turbo. Not sure if that is terribly important to seal. I also found that the previous capful of oil in the galleries has become a quarter of a quart full. So tomaro I will find a new number 3 cover as I can find no trace of oil coming from the valve covers. Ive pulled the first three plugs and they all look still brand new and gapped to .031 like the tsrm says they should be.
 

jrot

New Member
Apr 11, 2010
195
0
0
knob noster, MO
that tear in the intake pipe is a big deal...that alone could cause you issue....not sure on the cps mines like that too....sounds like the oil leck you have on top of the intake leak could be the issues for sure...fix those and see where your at...