Injector sizing question

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drumminforev

Guest
I used one of the online calculators and determined that i need 550cc for 400whp. So would it be smart to just buy right around 550 and be maxed out or would i want to shoot over. i can get 680cc for cheap and wondering if there would be any negative side to getting that much bigger
 

dbsupra90

toonar
Apr 1, 2005
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indiucky
you might want to slow down on making new topics. you have made a ton lately. i know there is all sorts of stuff you want to know, but searching and the faq has a lot of good info in it. i just mention because oftentimes someone that creates a lot of topics people will start to overlook them.

that aside-

as a basic guidline we have always used safe rwhp = cc * .87

that will give you a good idea of where you want to be. some people have made more hp on small injectors by raising base fuel pressure. but this is only effective up to a point. you can push the injectors well beyond the ideal duty cycle as well as hose up the spray pattern.

if you go too big on an injector you are going to run way too rich. our cars from the factory run on the rich side, and going too big will make it even more so. could get to a point where it is running so rich you are washing down the cyl walls.

sure, you can lower base fuel pressure, and scale down the airflow signal to decrease fuel flow, but only to a point. too low of fuel pressure will have poor spray patterns and just plain not work correctly. scaling too much of the airflow signal will start advancing the timing so much you could get detonation/knock and skyrocket egt's.

you need to set forth a goal for the car as far as horsepower, turbo, fuel mgmt, etc. then from there determine what size injector you need.
 
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drumminforev

Guest
I have used that calculator, but i do not know what brake specific fuel consumption is nor the proper duty cycle to calculate with.

How do you scale down the air flow signal...what does that mean.

And since i want 400whp, how do i know if 680cc will be too rich? According to your calculation they would be good to 590whp
 

jdub

Official SM Expert: Motor Oil, Lubricants & Fil
SM Expert
Feb 10, 2006
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Valley of the Sun
dbsupra90 said:
you might want to slow down on making new topics. you have made a ton lately. i know there is all sorts of stuff you want to know, but searching and the faq has a lot of good info in it. i just mention because oftentimes someone that creates a lot of topics people will start to overlook them.

^^^ Yep!!!
Seriously man...do a few searches before you ask. You're pretty new here and I don't want to come across as an ass, but this question has been beat to death.
 
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drumminforev

Guest
And this turns out to be completely wrong
"as a basic guidline we have always used safe rwhp = cc * .87"
 

dbsupra90

toonar
Apr 1, 2005
2,374
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indiucky
drumminforev said:
And this turns out to be completely wrong
"as a basic guidline we have always used safe rwhp = cc * .87"

656.25cc for 400rw?

you made an error in your math somewhere.

i wouldnt steer anyone wrong, esp when it came to fuel systems. i always err on the safe side. and this aint my first rodeo.

as far as afm signal scaling- thats how piggyback fuel systems work. it takes the incoming signal, scales it down a %, then sends it to the ecu. it tricks the ecu into thinking less air is coming into the motor and thereby decreasing fuel output which makes the a/f leaner.
 
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drumminforev

Guest
i did mess up and fixed it. So how much larger is acceptable before it will be running too rich?
 

MKIIINA

Destroyer of Turbos
Mar 30, 2005
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you need to also look at an injector going "static" generally injector safety range is under 85-90%.


oh yea and stop creating new threads! go get "maximum boost" also.
 
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drumminforev

Guest
I dont know what you mean by static, but i calculated using an 80% duty cycle
 

dbsupra90

toonar
Apr 1, 2005
2,374
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indiucky
drumminforev said:
i did mess up and fixed it. So how much larger is acceptable before it will be running too rich?

if your goal is 400rw, and the math says 525cc, id go for 550cc. they only make injectors in certain sizes, so you look for the size you need vs size available and go to the next bigger size over what you need.

like i said, the car runs rich from the factory. and if you require 525cc and put 680cc in there, its gonna be rich ontop of rich. i dont know that there is a formula or anything like that for how much you can go over your needed amount, that is a judgement call. it will also depend on your setup and how you plan on tuning the car.