Help Identifying a sound.

[Guard-TL-]

First of all the sound is not a rod knock, that was determined by my friend who already had rod knock twice. We at first thought that it was coming from the head because it sounds like a valve tap just 1000 times louder. So in the last two days we swaped heads from an NA block, it was cleaned and tested at the shop with no problems. But after installing it the symptoms remain. Also want to include that the car will only run for a few seconds before it "chokes" it self to a stall, so what ever is making that sound fucks everything up pretty badly.. Well here's a link to the clip I really hope one of you guys can figure this one out.

Save file then open with QuickTime or Real player.

Engine Knock

 

[IHI-RHC7]

That is either the WORST rod knock I have ever heard, or the starter is hitting the ring teeth on the flywheel. Remove the starter, and then start it and see if it helps. (you'll have to push start it, of course )
How's your oil pressure?

 

[GrimJack]

OMG - that sounds like pure evil. Or someone with ball bearings in their valve covers.

Pull the plugs and spin the engine by hand. Still happen? Should be detectable even at slow speeds by the sounds of that clip.

Is this an auto or a 5 speed? Turbo or NA?

 

[chriso]

Loose bolt on either the flywheel, pressure plate or in the case of an auto the flex plate?????

 

[Nick M]

First of all the sound is not a rod knock, that was determined by my friend who already had rod knock twice. We at first thought that it was coming from the head because it sounds like a valve tap just 1000 times louder.

Rod knock sounds quite a bit like valve noise, only louder. Many things can cause the knocking noise, where a shaft is spinning with too much clearance. Waterpump, alternator, crankshaft, etc...

 

[Guard-TL-]

To answer some questions...

It's a turbo 5 speed. The gauge is reading the oil pressure at constant 40 for the most part. When we had the first head off we turned the crank to see how the pistons would move and they moved smoothely with no noice detected at all. Would the flywheel/pressure plate make the car run that unstable, where it can hardly idle?

 

[socc924]

ok... im the other guy that said it doesnt sound like rod knock. cause it realy doesnt. here are other things Ill add.

Rod knock sounds quite a bit like valve noise, only louder. Many things can cause the knocking noise, where a shaft is spinning with too much clearance. Waterpump, alternator, crankshaft, etc...

we pulled the belt of the alt and waterpump just to be sure and started it and the sound was the same. then we pulled each spark plug wire one at a time and started it and it sounded the same for each plug.

Pull the plugs and spin the engine by hand. Still happen? Should be detectable even at slow speeds by the sounds of that clip.

We turned the motor by hand and there is NO sound. we even cranked the bottom end over while the head was off and all the pistons moved fine there did not seem to be a problem.

Loose bolt on either the flywheel, pressure plate or in the case of an auto the flex plate?????

I thought about this and it realy sounds like it could be the problem, but... there are other symptoms like the car stalling out and there is quite a bit of smoke comming out from the exhaust side of the head. alot, that high pitch noise in the clip sounds like there is too much pressure in the system.

While he was driving it before we changed the heads, with hardly any gas boost would be at like 15psi but the car wouldnt be accelerating and it was blowing alot of black smoke. When we first started it up when we bought it the noise would actually skip beats and at one point it went away for like 15-20 seconds.

 

[socc924]

That is either the WORST rod knock I have ever heard, or the starter is hitting the ring teeth on the flywheel. Remove the starter, and then start it and see if it helps. (you'll have to push start it, of course )
How's your oil pressure?

You know... now that i think about it we did have some trouble with the starter. At first it would work fine and then it just stopped working. When we had the head off we noticed that it was realy loose so we tightened it and it started up fine. I notice it doesnt look like any other starter from a supra i have seen before. ill take pics of it.

 

[GrimJack]

Ok, if you can spin the engine and it doesn't happen, then I'm going to blame something not connected to the engine.

The boost with no throttle means something is putting a fair bit of drag on the engine - which makes sense, explains the fact that it wants to slow down and die as well.

I'd DEFINITELY try IHI's plan with the starter. Longshot, but I'd pull all the belts on the front of the engine - but I think that anything creating that much drag would just spin the belt on the accessory.

Next I'd be looking at the clutch / tranny to see if something in there is seriously screwed up.

 

[socc924]

Ok... im gonna revive this topic. Some new info. Last weekend me and Guard-TL tried to remove the motor. First off the starter seemed fine. The teeth didnt seem damaged or have any sign of wear. It also was fully rested where it should be. The belt do not seem to be an issue since they were removed and the engine still made the noise.

NOW here is the intresting part. The motor would not separate from the tranny. I counted it up and I have taken a 7m out of a supra a total of 6 times. We unbolted the tranny from the motor, and everything else that needs to be disconnected. Lifted it with a hoist and it would not break loose. We were able to get a inch or 2 of gap by jacking the tranny, lowering and raising the motor and shaking, pulling and tearing at every angle. After like 4-5 hours they would not budge, they just seemed stuck. To give you an idea of how stuck they were, we lifted the motor and hooked the chain up to his truck. The truck either just burned the tires or pulled the entire supra forward.

Does this info help diagnose the sound at all?

 

[cjsupra90]

you did remember to unbolt the pressure plate correct? remember R154's will not come out without unbolting the pressure plate from the flywheel cause of the release bearing.

As for the noise, that sounds exactly like my motor did after spinning a rod bearing at around 6500rpm's and the motor still had good oil pressure. when we took it out, there was no bearing at all on the #2 rod so there was about an 1/8" gap between the rod and the crank all the way around

 

[GrimJack]

Actually, you can just pull out the clutch fork, and the whole clutch assembly will come out on the engine.

I'd say that something in the clutch / bellhousing is seriously toasted. Good luck getting it out - perhaps you should unbolt the tranny and pull them both at once, then try to separate them on the shop floor.

 

[Joel W.]

After like 4-5 hours they would not budge, they just seemed stuck. To give you an idea of how stuck they were, we lifted the motor and hooked the chain up to his truck. The truck either just burned the tires or pulled the entire supra forward.

Does this info help diagnose the sound at all?

toyota recomends using a 4x4 truck in the TSRM... (j/k)

page 5 http://groundsky.co.nz/techinfo/TSRM/14_MT.pdf

there is a pin that retains the fork and a C-clip that retains the pin.. also helps to drop the subframe for the bell housing to clear the firewall, or pull the motor mounts...