Head Gasket.... going but not gone.... need advice.

[CRE]

Hey guys,

I did try searching this, both here and on SF. Here's the situation: My Supra is my DD, when I drive on the highway for 10 minutes or longer my car starts pushing coolant out of the overflow. This does not occur while driving locally or just for brief periods. I've just changed the oil and there is no sign at all of coolant in the oil. I do suspect some exhaust gasses are escaping into the oil system though, as well as the coolant system.

I'm not loosing oil. My exhaust seems fine, no moisture, no smoke.

I have resigned myself to replacing the head gasket, cam seals and timing belt as well as a few other seals while I'm in there.

BUT, at the moment I am completely broke! I was wondering if given the minimal level of leakage if it would be benificial to re-torque the head (I have read before where others have found some of their head bolts had as little as mid-30's on them), or just leave it as is and baby the hell out of it for the next moth or two until I can afford to do the whole deal?

Regardless of whether I re-torque or not I will be replacing the HG, etc., as soon as I can afford.... if for nothing else, then for peace of mind.

Can I cause the leak to get worse from re-torquing? <--this is the real question.

Thanks!

 

[Dirgle]

While coolant being pushed out your overflow bottle can be caused by a BHG, it's not the only thing that can cause that to happen. If the coolant overflow got low and some air was sucked into the system this could also happen. A BHG is a worst case scenario, check all other things before making the determination it's the dreaded BHG. Here is a good write up on things to check.

www.cygnusx1.net/supra/techtip/bhgfaq.html

Also, you should have no problems re-torquing the HG, however it should be noted that a slim possibility does exist that you could make things worse on a composite HG, but that possibility is very very remote. Here is a good write up on re-torquing the HG

www.cygnusx1.net/supra/techtip/head_retorque.html

Yeah, yeah I know I'm on a cygnus kick lately but it's a really good site for info.

 

[CRE]

I'm pretty sure it's a BHG. I've burped the system numerous times the past few days. I am getting the "waterfall behind the dash" on occassion, I know this only indicates air in the coolant system. I've checked my coolant lines for cracks, but they all seem just fine.

I should add that, while my oil appears just fine, my coolant seems a bit murky. Nothing completely evident as oil, what else would darken coolant? The system was flushed thoroughly and refilled about 1500 miles ago.

 

[mickyg]

Rust will darken it for one thing! However, i'm assuming you've got antifreeze in it? If so, green will turn a bit more orange if there's rust. Red will probably be harder to tell. You could always invest in the old test strips that tell you if there's exhaust gasses in your coolant. They're basically PH strips that test for acid in your coolant. As the exhaust gas enters the coolant, it reacts and turns into a fairly nasty acidic liquid. I'm not sure how corrosive it actually gets but it's enough to register on the PH strips.

Hope that helps!

 

[CRE]

Yeah, I need to find a cheap coolant test kit. I'd just been told they usually ran about $40-$50 and not knowing when/if my wife's going to get her paycheck that's a lot.

If it's just Litmus paper I'd expect it to be damned cheap though.... guess I'll do some calling around tomorrow. Okay, just googled for test kits, the ones I've found available locally are for the most part the dye and pump kits. I did find the Litmus tests, but only in bulk. I'll call around tomorrow and see if I can find some locally for a few bucks.

The coolant is green, but it just seems, dark... not brown though. More like there's carbon in it.



EDIT: Oh, there is one other thing I've thought of previously... a dead radiator cap. I haven't anyway to test mine though. I suppose I'll test the coolant first and then I may also swap out the radiator cap.... shouldn't cost too much, right?

 

[amd_hcds]

I think you should start with changing the radiator cap and see what happens it's cheap and it could do what you're having.

 

[IJ.]

Check the Pass side carpet and make sure it hasn't popped the heater core.

 

[CRE]

Check the Pass side carpet and make sure it hasn't popped the heater core.

Yep, I've already checked there, it's dry.... thank (insert deity of choice here), I hate replacing those.

On my way to work I'm going to stop by Checker (the only parts store on the way) and see if they have those test strips... I'll probably pickup a new rad cap while I'm there as well.

Thanks for the advise guys! I'll keep you posted.

 

[Justin727]

arp's and a stock hg. isnt bad to change it all.

 

[CRE]

arp's and a stock hg. isnt bad to change it all.

Yeah, just the buying that's difficult at the moment.


I did replace the radiator cap. I asked about the test strips at two different parts stores, but neither had them. One had never heard of them, the other simply had no idea where to find them. Does anyone know of a chain that carries them? Preferably one with a store in Colorado.:icon_conf

 

[johnathan1]

yes, it sounds like my BHG, except I had a little white smoke out of the exhaust...

Buy the cap at the dealer, those cheapo ones are JUNK! I believe they run about $14.99 or something from Toyota, and the last time i checked, the autozone version was around $10.99, so... yea...it's better to pay a little more and get a quality product...

As for the retorque...that has been debated several times, some people will say yea, it's great, and some people will say that it will kill the hg... from my personal experience, I had a VERY mild BHG on my NA, no overheating, just an occasional throwup out of the overflow, a little coolant consumption, and the water fall sound... for the first 500 miles after the re-torque, the BHG got progressivley worse, and I ended up selling it shortly before the HG blew altogether... ( I know...the typical Supra abandonment, but I had no other choice).'

I would just leave it alone for now, and baby it.

::looks up at sky:: "What Would Aaron Do?" (WWAD) lol

 

[CRE]

Buy the cap at the dealer, those cheapo ones are JUNK!

DOH!!! Never even occured to me. :3d_frown: Well, I'll pick up an OEM when I can get the HG and other parts.

Who's Aaron?

Thanks for the advice. I'm still going to try to get some of those test strips, perhaps NAPA will have them. I am definitely going to baby it until I know precisely what's going on. I have noticed a slight drop in performance since this all started, so I suspect it's more than a pinhole in a hose.

And I'm definitely NOT selling my Supra! She's had a rough enough life.... I knew from the beginning this was going to turn into a restoration project. If it comes down to it, my wife does work close to home, so I can always borrow her (stupid, f-ugly, slow as all hell, boring, uncomfortable) Mercury Mystique. :nono: Of course that'll have to wait, she's willing, but not too keen on the idea of walking to work.

 

[Dirgle]

Buy the cap at the dealer, those cheapo ones are JUNK! I believe they run about $14.99 or something from Toyota, and the last time i checked, the autozone version was around $10.99, so... yea...it's better to pay a little more and get a quality product...

This is true, I tried two different caps from Checker Auto, one tested at 6psi and the other at 10psi, I gave up after that got one from the dealer, waited a week for shipping because there was on dealer near me. I’m not sure what the deal is because I never had a problem with Checker radiator caps on my other cars.

 

[ross1]

i'd say go to a shop and ask if they have the test strips the b&g guy gave them to us to use at the shop i worked at and see if they'll give you a couple. as for the acidity test i don't think those are too expensive it's a little plastic gauge (of sorts) with a hose on one end and a bulb on the other you just suck up a little coolant out of the radiator and the arm floats to the acidity... i couldn't see them being more than 10 bucks, the actual block tester with the blue dye is quite a bit more expensive though... the top two on this page
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools.asp?tool=all&Group_ID=1507&store=snapon-store

now i know if you don't work for a shop you can't buy from snap on but... this is what you want to look for

ross

 

[johnathan1]

I was able to rent a block tester from my local autozone, only a $20.00 deposit, I used it in the parking lot, and then brought it back in...although they won't always detect a BHG, on mine, it turned up negative...go figure...

 

[CRE]

Well, I did compare the two rad caps by hand and the new one is definitely stronger, I'd guess 3-4 pounds.

My coolant issue is minor enough that I don't believe one of those dye and pump tests will show anything... I don't really think a compression test would show anything either. Are you referring to either of those Johnathan1?

I didn't think those bulb style testers really worked for much other than getting a vague idea about your coolant mixture... but then I don't think I've ever used one.

At any rate, I'll see where the new rad cap puts things. It seems to me that there's more wrong than just a weak spring though. I'm still going to replace my headgasket and headbolts, I've been planning on it anyway. Just to be on the safe side of things.

 

[johnathan1]

dye an pump test??...hmm... well, the block tester was like a plastic cylinder with a squeezy thing on top, you put it on the radiator where the cap goes, and i has some blue fluid in it... is that it?

Aaron=Driftmotion

 

[CRE]

dye an pump test??...hmm... well, the block tester was like a plastic cylinder with a squeezy thing on top, you put it on the radiator where the cap goes, and i has some blue fluid in it... is that it?

Aaron=Driftmotion

Yeah, with the "squeezy thing" ROFL, that's the one. At the point where my car's at I'd have to have the engine up to running temp (at least) and I really don't like taking off the rad cap at that point.

Someone had suggested connecting a garden hose to the connector from a flush kit... a garden hose can provide a lot more pressure, but if it is my HG I'd really rather not risk flooding my cylinders. I'm sure it works great for intentionally blowing brittle hoses and finding pinholes, but I think I'm going to pass on that suggestion.

 

[JAB89]

If you give up on the snif tester or conclude that the result is inconclusive because you have a BHG leak that is so small (still prelimiary to a bad leak), do the following:

Perform a leak down test or at a minimum, pressurize each cylinder to 80 lbs at TDC for 5 minutes while watching the coolant in the radiator for air bubbles. This will tell you for sure. I did this, followed by a retorque and it fixed my BHG leak (at least for now). Maybe I was lucky. Check out both of my posts in this thread for details:

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16296&page=3

 

[johnathan1]

JAB: Shimming the wastegate caused your BHG? I got my BHG while car was in pure stock form....go figure.