Engine swap advice

[Another MkIII]

Ok, so for those of you that don't already know I bought my Supra for $1600 with a hole in the block. Its an 87 Turbo, with a built head, and some "custom" (hack-job) wiring. I'm working on removal right now. I have a service manual that gives good general info, but can be vague at times because it covers 79-93 Supras, so basically Mk II and Mk III. I'm a second year automotive student so I have some experience and I know basics like use masking tape to label wires, vacuum lines, bolts, take lots of pictures, etc. I was just wondering if anybody had some advice that might be able to help me with this specific application, any tricks or experiences learned while doing a swap of your own that aren't in the manual will help. So far everything seems pretty straight forward, but the more you know the better. I'll continue to update this as I have questions. Thanks in advance for any input.

UPDATE:
So I have 2 major questions that have formed in my mind.
Acessories: Is it easier to pull the motor with the alternator and power steering pumps attached, or am I better off to remove them?
Transmission: I have seen two procedures, both in different manuals, one says to pull the engine and trans out together, the other says to leave it in. Which way would be easier? I don't have a lift though, so I have to go out the top though, so keep that in mind.
Thanks for your time and help, and I'll be sure to give a full write up and pics when this is done so I can help others that run into the problems I have along the way.

-AM3

 

[IJ.]

Go slow and ask questions if you run into any issues, small annoying parts can be damn expensive for these cars if broken.

Baggies and a Sharpie will be your new best friends in a couple of months of delays waiting for parts/money ect when you've forgotten where it all goes.

 

[suprarx7nut]

Ditch the manual you have now and copy this link.

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/

BOOKMARK THAT.

You could also get your own paper back copy from toyota. Runs about ~50-60 bucks and is truly a life saver.

The boards will be able to help you answer most any question if you ask nicely and intelligently.

Welcome and good luck with the fix!

 

[Another MkIII]

Ditch the manual you have now and copy this link.

http://www.cygnusx1.net/Supra/Library/TSRM/MK3/

BOOKMARK THAT.

You could also get your own paper back copy from toyota. Runs about ~50-60 bucks and is truly a life saver.

The boards will be able to help you answer most any question if you ask nicely and intelligently.

Welcome and good luck with the fix!

OMG! You have no idea what kind of a headache you just saved me! When the rod exited the block, it knocked off some vacuum lines and stuff, and there are a few others that weren't connected when I got it. This will be such a huge help.
-AM3

 

[hvyman]

50-60 i paid 110 with employee discount wtf.

 

[bishop40k]

Where abouts in IL are you? I'm less than 1/2 hour from the IL/IN border over here in Lafayette. Having the FSM online helps alot, but having a paper copy (which can be found used from time to time for cheap, I bought my Cressida's FSM and Electronic Guide for $60) can help alot more, unless you have a computer in the garage.

Also in addition to labelling everything, go get a decent digi camera, and take LOTS of pictures. I know this has saved me multiple times on engine swaps/fixes, especially when it goes to vaccuum lines and the such.

 

[877m]

make sure to be careful with the electrical clips they can be a bitch and it really sucks when u break them. these old wires can be brittle. and like every one else said just take your time and pay attention to every thing

 

[Another MkIII]

make sure to be careful with the electrical clips they can be a bitch and it really sucks when u break them. these old wires can be brittle. and like every one else said just take your time and pay attention to every thing

Yeah, my harness is pretty aged. It has almost no flex whatsoever. I took off the TB, and the part next to it, the IAC I believe to make it easier to get the harness out, rather than risk damageing it.I might get a new harness if I can find one, or worst case scenario, I'll make a new one. I'm thinking of making a connector at the firewall though so that the next time I have to pull the motor, I can just disconnect the harness at the firewall and save the trouble of disconnecting it in the car.
I also have a couple questions:
Acessories: Is it easier to pull the motor with the alternator and power steering pumps attached, or am I better off to remove them?
Transmission: I have seen two procedures, both in different manuals, one says to pull the engine and trans out together, the other says to leave it in. Which way would be easier? I don't have a lift though, so I have to go out the top though, so keep that in mind.
Thanks for your time and help, and I'll be sure to give a full write up and pics when this is done so I can help others that run into the problems I have along the way.
-AM3

 

[sneakypete]

it addition to everything that was already mentioned (baggies, digi camera)... carefully organize everything as you take it off. try not to take off any part/accessories that dont need to come off.
some say to leave the harness on the motor (just disconnect it from the ecu). i personally took it off.
leave the tranny on the motor, this makes it easy to balance it when you pull the motor. the same goes when you put it back in. always use a hoist!! its dangerous otherwise
print out the sections in the TSRM that you might need to remove and install the engine.
there is also a references/tech tips section in this forum that gives a good step by step to pull the motor... that helped me out a lot
and get a few buddies to help you out. you will need several sets of hands to help get it out.
the first time is tricky... just work slowly and ask questions. we are here to help
-pete

 

[ZFast300Z]

Yeah, my harness is pretty aged. It has almost no flex whatsoever. I took off the TB, and the part next to it, the IAC I believe to make it easier to get the harness out, rather than risk damageing it.I might get a new harness if I can find one, or worst case scenario, I'll make a new one. I'm thinking of making a connector at the firewall though so that the next time I have to pull the motor, I can just disconnect the harness at the firewall and save the trouble of disconnecting it in the car.
I also have a couple questions:
Acessories: Is it easier to pull the motor with the alternator and power steering pumps attached, or am I better off to remove them?
Transmission: I have seen two procedures, both in different manuals, one says to pull the engine and trans out together, the other says to leave it in. Which way would be easier? I don't have a lift though, so I have to go out the top though, so keep that in mind.
Thanks for your time and help, and I'll be sure to give a full write up and pics when this is done so I can help others that run into the problems I have along the way.
-AM3

Your harness has the equivalant of a firewall connector. Drop the glovebox from inside. Unplug the harness from the ECU and the body plugs. Push grommet through firewall and the whole engine harness comes out. There is no need to disconnect anything from the engine ahead of time, as the whole harness can come right out with engine and trans. There are a couple clips that hold the harness to the firewall for routing purposes. Make sure you pop them out of the bulkhead.

Alternator comes out with the engine. Power steering pump stays in the car so you dont have to bleed lines etc. Air conditioning (If yours is still functional and charged) compressor can be taken off the engine and left in the car as well. Removing the compressor from the bracket is rather difficult due to the length of the bolts and frame rail interference. Remove the compressor and bracket assembly from the engine as on peice.

Digi-cam, masking tape, sharpie, notebook, baggies. Theres a reason I repeated everything people already said. Use them. I put an engine back in a car after 4 years that someone else took out, and because they had taken photos, properly labeled and bagged everything and made notes about routing/difficult parts etc, I had absolutely no problem re-installing the engine and having it running (and this was on a supercharged fuel injected Ford 3.8L which are a pain in the a$$ to work on) in a day.

Is it safe to assume that you are around the Glendale Heights area in IL?

 

[Another MkIII]

Your harness has the equivalant of a firewall connector. Drop the glovebox from inside. Unplug the harness from the ECU and the body plugs. Push grommet through firewall and the whole engine harness comes out. There is no need to disconnect anything from the engine ahead of time, as the whole harness can come right out with engine and trans. There are a couple clips that hold the harness to the firewall for routing purposes. Make sure you pop them out of the bulkhead.

Alternator comes out with the engine. Power steering pump stays in the car so you dont have to bleed lines etc. Air conditioning (If yours is still functional and charged) compressor can be taken off the engine and left in the car as well. Removing the compressor from the bracket is rather difficult due to the length of the bolts and frame rail interference. Remove the compressor and bracket assembly from the engine as on peice.

Digi-cam, masking tape, sharpie, notebook, baggies. Theres a reason I repeated everything people already said. Use them. I put an engine back in a car after 4 years that someone else took out, and because they had taken photos, properly labeled and bagged everything and made notes about routing/difficult parts etc, I had absolutely no problem re-installing the engine and having it running (and this was on a supercharged fuel injected Ford 3.8L which are a pain in the a$$ to work on) in a day.

Is it safe to assume that you are around the Glendale Heights area in IL?

AC is totally removed. Wish I had known about the harness when I started this lol, would of saved like an hour labeling all those connectors, lol. Meh, its a learning experience. And I'll need to drain the trans to pull it with the motor, right? Thanks everyone for your help.

And I'm in the Fox Valley area.
-AM3

 

[bishop40k]

When you go to pull the tranny, make sure you disconnect the plugs on it (reverse lights, abs, and speedo), disconnect shifter from up top (sounds stupid, but a friend of mine forgot and spent about 20 mins trying to figure wtf was up), remove tranny mount, driveshaft and drain it. When you go to lift the engine, make sure your drain pan is behind the tranny as there should be some left over fluid that will come out the driveshaft hole.

Most connectors I wouldn't worry too much about labelling as most are 1 of a kind plugs, meaning they will only plug into one thing, or the harness is only the right length to get to that one plug. Even if you have disconnected every plug in the engine bay, I would still try to bring the harness with the engine, as it's kind of bulky and likes to snag on stuff (and being 15+ years old, pretty brittle). While you have the harness off, before hooking it back up, make sure you go through every plug and check for corrosion, and apply some di-electric grease as this will help make sure you are getting good signal through the plugs. Also check for cracked, cut, or melted wiring while you're at it. It would really suck to waste all the time to swap and engine just to find out part of your harness is fried.

 

[ForcedTorque]

With my lift all the way extended, I usually have to pick up the tail shaft of the tranny, and help it over the nose of the car. A load leveler will ease the process a bit. Do some good cleaning while the motor is out. Or better yet, send the car to the body shop, and get the bay sprayed before putting the motor back in. It will make a world of difference.

 

[bishop40k]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention in my last post. It sometimes helps to jack the front end of the car up before removing the engine and put it on stands, that way you have more room for the tail of the transmission to pivot and not hit the ground. We had a time trying to get a RB20 into a 240sx because of this, had to jack the front up to nearly 1.5 feet off the ground just to get everything to clear.

Be sure to have some extra hands/eyes at hand when you go pulling the engine, I normally place a person on each side of the car and sometimes one watching the tailshaft, that way if it starts to snag on anything they can catch it and stop the hoist-man. This also helps alot by having the extra help to guide everything out without damaging the car.

 

[deabionni]

UPDATE:
So I have 2 major questions that have formed in my mind.
Acessories: Is it easier to pull the motor with the alternator and power steering pumps attached, or am I better off to remove them?
Transmission: I have seen two procedures, both in different manuals, one says to pull the engine and trans out together, the other says to leave it in. Which way would be easier? I don't have a lift though, so I have to go out the top though, so keep that in mind.
Thanks for your time and help, and I'll be sure to give a full write up and pics when this is done so I can help others that run into the problems I have along the way.

I pretty much followed this guide when I did my engine swap. It really was a time saver.

In answer to your questions, the alternator can stay on the engine. Following the advice from the thread I linked, I took the power steering and A/C pumps off the engine and laid them on the frame rails. No need to unhook them, and refill/bleed after hooking them back up.

The transmission I left on the engine, as it's only a few extra easy to access bolts to take off to remove it with the engine. No need to try to reach hard to access bolts around the firewall to remove the engine alone. (Not to mention, it's easier to line up the tranny & engine out of the car; rather than lining it up in the engine bay).

 

[ZFast300Z]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention in my last post. It sometimes helps to jack the front end of the car up before removing the engine and put it on stands, that way you have more room for the tail of the transmission to pivot and not hit the ground. We had a time trying to get a RB20 into a 240sx because of this, had to jack the front up to nearly 1.5 feet off the ground just to get everything to clear.

I've found the other way works better. Let all the air out of the front tires, and jack the back up as high as you can. Makes the engine/trans go in at a much more natural angle.

 

[VooDoo]

I've found the other way works better. Let all the air out of the front tires, and jack the back up as high as you can. Makes the engine/trans go in at a much more natural angle.

^^^^^^^^^ Very nice info..

You could also get a pack of electrician # strips. Put one on one end and were it connects. Use it on wires vacume lines anything that will be seperated. This is a link to were you can get one

http://cableorganizer.com/wire-marker/

or just check you local electrical supply store

 

[supramang]

I saw that you said the wiring harness is in kinda bad shape, I suggest you go through that thing once you have it off or the engine out and make sure everything looks good. I had problems with both knock sensors on start up when I swapped in the turbo motor. I am still finding little messed up wires on that harness like my vsv and the wires that go to the reverse sensor on the tranny and such lol bad electronics suck when you wanna go have some fun!!

 

[877m]

Yeah, my harness is pretty aged. It has almost no flex whatsoever. I took off the TB, and the part next to it, the IAC I believe to make it easier to get the harness out, rather than risk damageing it.I might get a new harness if I can find one, or worst case scenario, I'll make a new one. I'm thinking of making a connector at the firewall though so that the next time I have to pull the motor, I can just disconnect the harness at the firewall and save the trouble of disconnecting it in the car.
I also have a couple questions:
Acessories: Is it easier to pull the motor with the alternator and power steering pumps attached, or am I better off to remove them?
Transmission: I have seen two procedures, both in different manuals, one says to pull the engine and trans out together, the other says to leave it in. Which way would be easier? I don't have a lift though, so I have to go out the top though, so keep that in mind.
Thanks for your time and help, and I'll be sure to give a full write up and pics when this is done so I can help others that run into the problems I have along the way.
-AM3

oh its not going to be a whole lot of fun with out a lift i own a car shop and it wasnt fun

 

[deabionni]

No need for a lift to do an engine swap. A GOOD jack, some jack stands, and an engine hoist (a garage helps too) are all that's needed to swap an engine.