DIY CT26 rebuild link?

[GrimJack]

I seem to recall a link to a Celica All-trac site that explained how to rebuild the CT26... but I'll be damned if I can find it, I've searched here and SF and Google... found some information on a rebuild kit, but that's all.

Anyone have this handy and feel like sharing?

 

[Loki]

Here ya go

http://www.alltrac.net/tuning/turborebuild.html

 

[GrimJack]

Dude, you rock.

 

[GrimJack]

By the way, some research has given me the following info.

The link for a place in Canada to buy the rebuild kit is dead - they closed their doors years ago.

On the good side of things, ADP has since expanded into Canada, and has offices in both Ontario and BC. They sell a rebuild kit for the CT26, for $193 CDN. No information on how good the kit is as of yet, but it looks like there is a very good chance I'll be buying one shortly.

Contact information is:
Ontario: 1-800-567-7559
BC: 1-800-811-1188

 

[TONY!]

PRICES
$193 CD that you mentioned
.81 @ exchange rate
$156.33 = USD
^ that seems kind of high.
I know eBay use to sell them for less (like $100 USD)
I just looked them up now & found a kit for $140 USD...with shipping it comes to $150 USD, so I guess that is about right. I cant find the other sellers on eBay anymore
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33742&item=7968840497&rd=1
Prices of rebuild kits have risen
I also know that East Coast Turbo sells kits as well. I think that their prices may be cheaper for kits. They may ask you if you want the minor or major rebuild kit.


WHAT I CAN CONTRIBUTE
Rebuilding a CT-26 is easy stuff (if marked before disassembly). I can put one together in less than 15 minutes minus the torquing of the compressor nut. It is not really all that complex in there at all. When you take them apart you need to mark them so that they stay balanced of course, so mark them as the link that Loki provided states. Also when you inspect your turbo, take a look at the exhaust housing. The ex housings do usually crack on these CT-26 units. The cracks occur on the waste gate & in the inside of the of the exhaust port of the snail. I am told that if you need a good housing, it will cost you $250 USD from a turbo rebuilder. You can inspect the shaft by putting a straight edge to it & seeing if there are low spots in its length. You can also mic’ it at different points checking for consistency. I am told by East Coast Turbo that the oil clearances between the parts are ideally at .0015” (which happens to be the ideal clearance for the crank & their bearings as well).


MY EXPERIENCE WITH REBUILDERS (NOT ALL ARE LIKE THIS)
In my case this one shop quoted me $250 to rebuild my turbo. I knew my exhaust housing was cracked so I bought another turbo from eBay just so I could get the housing. Well I took both my turbos in complete form to get one good one made. When they got my turbos, they called me up & told me that it would cost $750 now to make one good one out of the two I gave them. When they disassembled them, they did not mark the compressor wheel, the shaft, or the compressor nut in relationship to one another. Their $750 figure to just build one was not doable for me. I was not interested in upgrading, I was not buying a housing from them, their figure was just to rebuild one turbo. I went & got my parts back all apart in one box (it is not a good idea to have heavy exhaust housings in a box with compressor wheel/s I might add). I later noticed that a compressor wheel is missing from the pile. So I had to learn how these are assembled to make sure I was not missing any other parts as well. Seems that I have to do everything if I want things done right!


IF THE TURBO WAS DISASSEMBLED WITHOUT MARKING THE WHEEL, SHAFT OR NUT IN RELATION TO ONE ANOTHER
If done without marking as this heading describes, you will have to have the rotating assembly rebalanced.
There are different ways to balance the assembly. One is to have it all balanced as a whole unit. Another way is to have the compressor wheel & shaft balanced separately then rebalanced together.

How to set it up for balancing: I am told that you are supposed to pre assemble the turbo; torque the nut; mark the shaft, nut, & wheel; then disassemble the turbo, reassemble the shaft, wheel, & nut; and then have it rebalanced. You would do it this way because you want the shaft, wheel, and nut to be assembled & rebalanced exactly in the same positioning to one another as they would be in the turbo.

Torquing the compressor nut: I contacted this one rebuild kit seller on eBay and asked him how to torque the compressor nut if it was never marked. He replied as follows:
“I do not have a instructional manual for ct-26,i can answer your
question. The compressor nut is 18.inch pounds, plus 30 degrees use
red loctite,thanks”
Btw, Some people who have made web pages don’t recommend you use Loctite at all.


MY QUESTIONS

Has anyone ever built a turbo that was all apart without being marked first? If so, what way did you have it rebalanced?

How & how much do you torque the compressor nut?
Would you do it with a torque wrench? Or do you tighten the nut based on the feel of how much friction tightening causes on the ability of the shaft to spin freely?

I am not so sure as this dilemma is something I have to deal with now thanks to the careless idiot that took my turbos apart without marking them. The same idiot that lost, damaged, or stole my compressor wheel

 

[GrimJack]

I'd seriously hesitate to use locktite - it's designed to be a lubricant at high temperatures. If a turbo doesn't qualify as a high temp, I don't know what would.

Thanks for all the info, Tony, that looks to help a fair bit.

 

[flubyux2]

i saved that link cuz i would like a guideline for when i rebuld my ct. you dont use loctite on the CT cuz the threads are left-hand. so they CANT come undone.

and you are supposed to hold the turbine wheel w/ a wrench so that you can torque down the compressor not. torquing the nut down untill the shaft turns doesnt work.

 

[TONY!]

...and you are supposed to hold the turbine wheel w/ a wrench so that you can torque down the compressor not. torquing the nut down untill the shaft turns doesnt work.

heheh Of course it won’t work. I never said (or should I say meant) to do that in the first place. Give me more credit that assume that I meant you should tighten it until the assembly won’t move and then just leave it like that. Here is what I meant as follows:

See, I was thinking of it as a bicycle's front wheel, which IS a rotating assembly also.
When you tighten the nuts that are just outside of the bearings (inside the forks), you tighten UNTIL you feel friction & then BACK OUT the bolt a touch. You do it this way to minimize the side to side play in the wheel without creating additional friction on the rotating assembly.
There is a fine line on how much to tighten such assemblies. Too much tightening creates additional friction. Too little tightening allows for side to side play or excessive thrust play.
It is easier to notice the play on a bike wheel then on a turbo's rotating assembly though.

The reason why I question using a torque wrench is because sometimes the compressor wheel will slide on the shaft easier then other times. I have noticed differences in the amount of resistance needed just to put on different wheels on different shafts (all stock CT26 parts too). Sometimes they won’t slide easily at all. If a torque wrench is used at the mentioned 18 inch/pounds (1.5 ft/lbs) plus 30 degrees method, you may not be able to tighten these assemblies consistently because just to overcome the resistance of sliding the wheel over the shaft might eat up the torque applied or at least not give you a uniform torque minus the varied resistance that compressor wheels take to slide on the shaft since it is only 1.5ft/lbs to start with.

Formula written:
Torque applied to actually tightening the compressor nut = total torque applied (only 18 in/lbs) – varied resistance of the compressor wheel sliding over the turbine shaft.

My criticism is that a varied resistance of the compressor wheel sliding over the turbine shaft will of course give you a varied torque applied to the compressor nut. Also the total torque applied is only 18 in/lbs (1.5ft/lbs), so I can see it as a concern.

 

[TONY!]

Special Tool Needed For Disassembly And Rebuilding

Special tools you may need are as follows:

VISE: Needed to hold down the turbine shaft while disassemble the compressor nut and to torque it back on. Bought mine at WalMart for $10 USD.

SNAP RING PLIERS: You need this tool for the big snap ring in the compressor housing that secures it to the cartridge and for the snap ring in the cartridge that is behind the compressor wheel. I made mine from needle nose pliers that I bought from Dollar $tore for a dolla. Then I modified the tip with a file.

BIG RUBBER HAMMER OR ONE THAT LOOKS LIKE THOR’S HAMMER: The exhaust housing will not just slide off of the housing. You need to help it along by carefully striking the exhaust housing at varied points.
*Tips* Remove the exhaust housing before you remove the compressor housing. Make sure the exhaust housing does not come in contact with the turbine’s fins while removing the housing.

 

[Supra Blues]

I was gonna rebuild mine myself, but couldn't get the damned housing to seperate.

Plus the kits I found typically ran about $120 to $150. I found a reputable place locally and they should have it done today for $380.

He said they balance the shaft and wheels seperatly. Then assemble the unit and balance again.

Hope it turns out okay...

 

[TONY!]

I was gonna rebuild mine myself, but couldn't get the damned housing to seperate.

Plus the kits I found typically ran about $120 to $150. I found a reputable place locally and they should have it done today for $380.

He said they balance the shaft and wheels seperatly. Then assemble the unit and balance again.

Hope it turns out okay...

Did you use a hammer & hit it in various places like I stated in one of my posts? It won't come out easy at all. You need to bang at it. I have disassembled two of those CT-26 turbos from their exhaust housings. Others say to use a heat gun--never did it that way.

And yes, it is better to balance the shaft & wheel separately then rebalance them together. East Coast Turbo does it that way. The rep told me that it will cost $30 for balancing the assembly in the way you mentioned.

EDIT: added words (added words in lime).

 

[GrimJack]

$30 for balancing? That's very reasonable... I was seriously expecting $100 or more!

 

[Supra Blues]

Did you use a hammer & hit it in various places like I stated in one of my posts? It won't come out easy at all. You need to bang at it. I have disassembled two of those CT-26 turbos from their exhaust housings. Others say to use a heat gun--never did it that way.

And yes, it is better to balance the shaft & wheel separately then rebalance them together. East Coast Turbo does it that way. The rep told me that it will cost $30 for balancing the assembly in the way you mentioned.

EDIT: added words (added words in lime).

Yes. I hammered the crap out of it. Even used a heat gun then hammered it. I spent one week trying to get the thing apart. At that point, I figured I was hammering hard enough and decided that if I did get it off with the hammer, it probably would have broken something.

I would have liked to do it myself though...Oh well.

 

[jester1341]

as soon as my compressor wheel arrives in the mail[anyday now] i will start rebuilding my turbo[exhaust side oil leak ]

as i have read the tips i am keeping close in mind are;
-mark everything! and put it back that way
-use the right tools
-bang the crap out of the ext. side to get it off!

now about the compressor nut??....if mine is stock i use vise grips to remove it, but what do i replace it with???

my "deluxe ct20/ct26 rebuild kit" came with basiclly only ext. side parts
small baggie with half moon peice and two small gold colored sleeves with 6 holes in them. then a larger bag with the large aluminum washer for the center, about 2" Oring, small snap ring, peice that looks like a spool, and finally a small bearing[looks like a earing you wear once your holes are strectched]

is there anything else i will need???

john

 

[jester1341]

BTW try www.turbocharged.com

their eBay store is turbosRus or something like that, i bought a compressor wheels from them.

john

 

[TONY!]

as soon as my compressor wheel arrives in the mail[anyday now] i will start rebuilding my turbo...

You are not ready yet. A new compressor wheel means that you need to rebalance the rotating assembly. Just read my first post for more info, under the heading "IF THE TURBO WAS DISASSEMBLED WITHOUT MARKING THE WHEEL, SHAFT OR NUT IN RELATION TO ONE ANOTHER."

…-bang the crap out of the ext. side to get it off! …

You did notice I pictured a big hammer, & called it “Thor’s Hammer,” right? Hit it carefully as you strike at various points.

… now about the compressor nut??....if mine is stock i use vise grips to remove it, but what do i replace it with???...

I think some reuse it, but double check with the company you bought the kit from for a second & maybe better opinion…

 

[jester1341]

damnit yano.........it scares me to think i overlooked the fact that the new compressor wheels will not be marked!! i seriouslly cannot believe i didn't catch that[i read the whole thread and webpage]

in any light i guess my wheel will have to do for the time being then ugly but i can boost 10PSI so it can't be too bad.

john

 

[jester1341]

i opened the box my new wheel cam in and i want to ask, why can't i mark the old wheel and install the new one in it's respectiful location[it has one notch on the front and two of different sized on the back] it being the same as OE shouldn't i be able to you it, i mean it can only be installed in one manor if the old is marked and the new has that mark transcribed....

i can see where there could be tiny tiny differences and how that would effect the over all balance but.......could i swap???

i was just thinking i wasn't going to try it...

john

 

[GrimJack]

Don't try it. Each CHRA is balanced differently, and a fraction of a gram turns into a helluva harmonic vibration at 50,000 rpm.

You can't just put the new wheel in the same place as the old one, as it won't be exactly the same as the old wheel, and therefore, you'll get an imbalanced assembly.

Just get the whole thing rebalanced - it's not that expensive from what I've read here. Under $100 anyhow.

 

[MDCmotorsports]

http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3934